Guards on chucks

[tony]

Hi folks , can anyone please tell me if it is a legal requirement to have a guard covering a chuck on a woodturning lathe. The reason I ask is because our health & safety dept have stated we need one on the lathe whilst using a chuck , as its a legal requirement ! I personally think they are talking b******t , as I have never seen a guard covering a chuck, nor seen these so called guards for sale anywhere. They said its because its a moving part & needs guarding , I said we need to cover the live centre then as that's a moving part & possibly the workpiece !!! But they said we have to draw a line somewhere , to which I replied that we have to adhere to the law as quoted by them or not put any on at all , but it was like talking to a brick wall , I think I know what the replies will be, but please do reply as it should make interesting reading , thanks Tony

 

[MMUK]

Yet another case of HS Hitler by the sound of it. He's talking out of his Jack boot!

 

[nev]

Are items not manufactured to the required safety standards? (Circular saws, table saws etc all come with blade guards, so one may ass-u-me that lathes are required to have pulleys etc covered and the rest is business use?)

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Is he confusing things with an engineering lathe where guarding the chuck is normal?

Regards Mick

 

[bellringer]

The only thing i can find is HSE for a rotary knife lathe. So i think they are talking out of there behind. could it be the person has no idea and is looking at the metal lathe guide lines the only lathe i have seen a guard on is a big jet lathe

 

[finneyb]

Axminster sell the Jet 3520B with a cage guard http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-3520b-he ... ning-lathe
Generally, they don't have guards fitted.

Although if you are an employee HSE requires that you are protected against reasonably foreseeable risks - if you are at home it's your choice. The reasoning is to prevent unscrupulous employers financially benefitting from the employee taking a risk or being forced to take risk ie cutting corners to save money.

 

[finneyb]

Hi

Is he confusing things with an engineering lathe where guarding the chuck is normal?

Regards Mick

Is that guarding of the chuck or to prevent coolant splashing?
Sometime since I have been in an engineering workshop

Brian

 

[Spindle]

Is that guarding of the chuck or to prevent coolant splashing?

Coolant splash / flying chips and swarf - guarding makes sense because it can be achieved without making the tool 'unusable'

Interlocks can stop fingers and other body parts coming into contact with the spinning / sharp things

 

[JustBen]

I would have thought it was rubbish seeing as places like Axminster have gone to the trouble of rounding off sharp edges on their chucks to prevent injury.
If all chucks needed guards, they wouldn't have bothered.
I know a lot will be hobby use though but it still seems silly.
I quite often rub my knuckles on the chuck (not intentionally) to no harm.

 

[tony]

Thanks for all the comments folks , the guy in question does come a fitter/turner background & will probably be used to seeing guards on metalworking lathes, but I did try & politely suggest that he may be mistaken in this case , but he was having none of it , cheers Tony

 

[Grahamshed]

Few people are capable of admitting they are/were wrong but I feel pretty certain that if they were needed for trade use then Axi would be offering them for hobby use as well.

 

[Vic Perrin]

The only guidance the HSE produce in relation to lathes is for Rotary Knife Lathes

The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations cover all machinery used in the Workplace.

The regulations give a hierarchy of controls that must be in place to ensure the safe use of machinery.

Guarding of the moving parts of machinery is one of the most important controls available, however in some cases it may not be possible or practical to fit a suitable fixed or moveable guard. A standard wood turning lathe in my opinion would fall into this category.

Where it is not possible to achieve control by fitting guards then the control measure to reduce the risk of injury would be to ensure that the employees operating the machine i.e. Woodturning lathe should have received suitable information, instruction and training on the safe operation of the machine and made aware of the risks involved ( risk assessment)

The regulations only apply to a workplace where people are employed.

 

[John. B]

If you think that you have a pr*t there, consider this.

I teach Woodturning at a high school after school time (Junior club)

We have extensive amount of machines and tools as you can imagine. Last week we were visited by the HS police

who condemned several machines because they did not stop inside 10 seconds of being switched off.

A portable double ended grinder because it was not bolted to the floor, (note the word portable)

A lathe because it only had two emergency stop buttons (hand and knee high) he wanted another on the floor.

A thicknessor/Joiner, circular saw and a milling machine, for the 10 second rule despite the fact the only user could be the school technician.

I think the world's going potty.

John. B

 

[Finial]

What then John, you think it's OK for a school workshop to use machinery that wouldn't be legal in an industrial shop (and isn't legal there either)? The stopping time requirement goes back a few years now, sounds as if the person responsible for the workshop might not have been paying attention!

 

[yorkshirepudding]

When dealing with these people ask them to quote chapter and verse the specific law they are referring to. That usually gets them off your back.

 

[John. B]

No finial I don't think it is OK. I accept that they should conform to the existing legislation.

What my grumble is about, is the accelerating bureaucratic nonsense that people can not be responsible for there own actions

so the state has to intervene because it's always someone else's fault.

All the machines in question can not be used by any of the pupils, only by the school technician and has done for many years without injury.

The problem today is LITIGATION spilled over from the USA, it won't be long before a mild sneeze will bring an accusation of causing the

resurrection of the black death.

Rant over.

John. B

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

The problem today is LITIGATION spilled over from the USA

Old Tory Blair was a great proponent of making sure everyone had access to higher education. To empower the disenfranchised, educational standards were lowered. This may be one of the reasons we see new graduates unable to use spelling & punctuation properly. When you tip the balance what we end up with is industries unable to cope with new graduates. The apparent accepted solution to this is to breed a generation of ambulance chasers.
It's a monkey's paw.
Be careful what you wish for.

Anyroad, meanwhile back at the ranch. HSE legislation is pretty wooly and open to interpretation. We were taught woodwork and metalwork at school. Nowadays the kids get what is known as design tech. They rarely get to use any of the tools we learned on. I firmly believe this is why our televisions are full of programmes showing DIY injuries. If our young people were taught to use these tools properly, and learned to respect them, the number of injuries would go down.

What do I know though? I'm not a politician who thinks he knows how to educate better than the teachers.

 

[Richard Findley]

It is illegal for a business to sell any machinery without the correct guards so there is definitely no requirement (or even such a thing) as guarding for a wood lathe.

Take a look at this link, which shows the HSE are aware of the H&S jobs worth!!

http://press.hse.gov.uk/2013/new-uk...end-of-league-table/?ebul=gd-cons/nov13&cr=13

Report him if he won't get off your back!!

Cheers

Richard

 

[finneyb]

They rarely get to use any of the tools we learned on.

About twice a year I judge at Big Bang –a science and technology competition for secondary school kids –it’s more to encourage the kids than judge. A standard question is how did you cut that shape/ make this – the answer is invariably I used the laser cutter. Note no fret saw or stanley/craft knife etc.

The best one was a couple of years ago this project was designing a small hydro scheme – 150mm pipe dia. And they produced a prototype of the impeller - standard question again how did you make this. Answer we designed it using XXX on the computer and then used the 3D laser cutter ie untouched by human hand.

It’s good to see them using new tech as a matter of course, but I am envious that I can’t have a go.

Brian

 

[ericdockum]

Interesting comment on the big bang. I have been thinking recently about our high streets and empty shops. Also some of the small workshops that have been built in recent years.

Perhaps it would be good for society if some of the empty town centre shops were used a workshops, where passers by, and especially children and young people, could see things actually being made. In the same way some children don't know that milk comes from cows, many don't realise that people make things, and that they don't all magically appear floating down a major Brazilian river. :wink:

Suppose a shop window the typical workshop set up in it, with someone working daily actually making things in front of the public, in the town centre. Perhaps several about the place, a turnery, potter, jewellery anything you like. They could actually sell product and specialist equipment as wall, but the idea would be that the front of the shop would be a visible workshop.

Unfortunately these sort of small workshops are either in some sort of olde tyme experience museum, or in a set of small workshops buried on an industrial estate.

In the same way some charity shops operate rent/rates free, could not this be done to stimulate the town centres? They could move on if a full rent paying business wanted the place.

Could be a daft idea of course, wouldn't be the first time. But it might educate the many.

any comments?