Grinding chisels square?

[J_SAMa]

Hi all,
Here we go, another sharpening thread...
So the problem:
I find it hard to keep the bevel of a narrow chisel square when sharpening. My 6 mm chisel went out of square without me noticing (probably because I had rocked it laterally when sharpening) and I tried to correct it. It was extremely hard since I got nothing square to register against in the first place. I sharpen free hand (convex bevel) but often put on a secondary bevel (also free hand) with green honing compound just so i can procrastinate on sharpening.
So is there a trick for sharpening narrow chisels with out rocking or applying uneven pressure?
Tried a honing guide, the bevel was back to square but boy was is slow...
Any suggestions what I should try?
Sam

 

[carlb40]

Using a guide will be slow at first as you will be removing the convex bevel first, before squaring the end. You could either carry on preferably with the coarsest method you have? Or increase the bevel angle again unless already quite steep?

 

[Jacob]

Narrow chisels (below 6mm say) I pull towards rather than push, with a finger firmly down just behind the edge, controlling it. I find it slightly easier to keep them level that way.
I wouldn't bother about being off square unless it affects the work in some way (unlikely), but next time I'd hone a touch to correct it, but without getting carried away.

 

[GazPal]

Drawing a line squarely across the blade width - near the edge - will help you maintain square until you've developed the knack. :wink:

 

[AndyT]

Drawing a line squarely across the blade width - near the edge - will help you maintain square until you've developed the knack. :wink:

Agreed. Use a fine-pointed all-surface felt tip pen. If you can't see the line, put some Tippex on first.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Another approach is to keep a small (2", 50mm) engineer's square handy, and check squareness of the edge from time to time as you hone. As Gaz suggested above, after a few months, you find that you tend to keep very close to square without thinking about it. Until then, use whatever aids or dodges help - I'd not heard of the 'line across' tip before, but it sounds a good one.

The small engineer's square is a useful tool to have - handy when marking out joints; a standard 6" square can be rather cumbersome. It's useful for checking squareness of small boxes and such, too. They only cost a few quid - a very worthwhile investment.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Tormek with sqaure edge jig (I can hear the boo's from here

 

[J_SAMa]

Using a guide will be slow at first as you will be removing the convex bevel first, before squaring the end. You could either carry on preferably with the coarsest method you have? Or increase the bevel angle again unless already quite steep?

Hi Carl,
Nope they are already at 30 degrees... And I need to use them for dovetails.
What I found is that applying pressure with a honing guide is harder than free hand, therefore it goes more slowly.
Sam

 

[J_SAMa]

Narrow chisels (below 6mm say) I pull towards rather than push, with a finger firmly down just behind the edge, controlling it. I find it slightly easier to keep them level that way.
I wouldn't bother about being off square unless it affects the work in some way (unlikely), but next time I'd hone a touch to correct it, but without getting carried away.

I don't know, but chisels being unsquare makes me feel inadequate, especially for fine work like dovetails.
That said, from a practical point of view, how important is it to keep chisels square?

 

[carlb40]

Narrow chisels (below 6mm say) I pull towards rather than push, with a finger firmly down just behind the edge, controlling it. I find it slightly easier to keep them level that way.
I wouldn't bother about being off square unless it affects the work in some way (unlikely), but next time I'd hone a touch to correct it, but without getting carried away.

I don't know, but chisels being unsquare makes me feel inadequate, especially for fine work like dovetails.
That said, from a practical point of view, how important is it to keep chisels square?

What you could do is leave it out of square and consider it a skew chisel

 

[Jacob]

May not matter much at all depending what you are doing - skew chisels often come in handy!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Narrow chisels (below 6mm say) I pull towards rather than push, with a finger firmly down just behind the edge, controlling it. I find it slightly easier to keep them level that way.
I wouldn't bother about being off square unless it affects the work in some way (unlikely), but next time I'd hone a touch to correct it, but without getting carried away.

I don't know, but chisels being unsquare makes me feel inadequate, especially for fine work like dovetails.
That said, from a practical point of view, how important is it to keep chisels square?

Unless it's supposed to be a skew chisel, it's probably better being near enough square - a degree or so either way won't make much difference. If it starts to look out-of-square to the naked eye, it's probably as well to correct it next time you're sharpening it.

As with so much in woodworking, if it looks right, it probably is right. If it looks wrong, do something about it.

 

[Jelly]

May not matter much at all depending what you are doing - skew chisels often come in handy!

My favorite tool for making fine adjustments when fitting joints, that nice slicing cut and the ablity to get the point into internal corners to tidy up the remaining fibres.

FWIW, i have some chisels that are a little out of square, and they work just fine for the most part... It's when it stops working just fine that you actually have to make a change.

 

[bugbear]

Hi all,
Here we go, another sharpening thread...
So the problem:
I find it hard to keep the bevel of a narrow chisel square when sharpening.

Is the edge straight?

BugBear

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi all,
Here we go, another sharpening thread...
So the problem:
I find it hard to keep the bevel of a narrow chisel square when sharpening.

Is the edge straight?

BugBear

Yes, I think. At least it looks straight when held against a ruler.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With slightly skewed chisels, it's hard to stand them on the work square. When I'm chopping dovetails I need the chisel to stand perfectly square otherwise I'll chop into the walls.

 

[Fromey]

If you have a bench grinder and want to save time with getting it square manually, just buzz it down, checking occasional with a small square (Workshop Heaven sell tiny ones for a few pounds). A hollow ground bevel is then very easy to hone.

A related question, I have a couple of old gouges that I picked up cheap and they are blunt as billio plus very much out of square. How would you get a gouge back in square?

 

[AndyT]

A related question, I have a couple of old gouges that I picked up cheap and they are blunt as billio plus very much out of square. How would you get a gouge back in square?

Grind the end so it's square side to side, holding the blade end-on to the grindstone, ignoring the bevel. Go slowly, dipping in water to cool the steel. Once you have got the end square across, re-shape the bevel to approach the edge but not quite meet it, aiming to leave an even thickness of blunt edge all the way across. Then hone a sharp edge using a coarse stone/abrasive paper/diamond hone etc - whichever you prefer.

If it's an in-cannel gouge, I find abrasive paper wrapped around a dowel or offcut of pipe/tube the easiest way to hone.

 

[Racers]

+1

That's what I do.

Pete

 

[Fromey]

Thanks for the confirmation Andy and Pete. That's what I thought I'd have to do.

 

[bugbear]

Yes, I think. At least it looks straight when held against a ruler.

As tangential tip, it's much easier to check straight edges against the stock of a metal-stocked square, since you're not then trying to line a narrow thing against a narrow thing.

BugBear