Grinding Chisels & Plane irons

[Corneel]

But checking sharpening threads in the middle of the night usually isn't very helpfull to get sleepy again.
Or, on second thought, maybe it is...

 

[bugbear]

(Didn't have a "Do Not Feed The Troll You Silly Sods" smilie handy, unfortunately. My bad.)

Bit big, but here ya' go:

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Unless the surface area of the whetted surface amounts to serious yardage, the entire theory surrounding whether or not it takes more work to whet a flat or curved surface is a serious waste of drinking time. We're talking millimetres and fractions of millimetres on surfaces being dealt with during the honing process. :roll:

For such a practical man, Jacob does raise tiny details, and over detailed analysis.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Unless the surface area of the whetted surface amounts to serious yardage, the entire theory surrounding whether or not it takes more work to whet a flat or curved surface is a serious waste of drinking time. We're talking millimetres and fractions of millimetres on surfaces being dealt with during the honing process. :roll:

For such a practical man, Jacob does raise tiny details, and over detailed analysis.

BugBear

This issue of more or less metal seems to bother people so I suppose it has to explained.* I hope woodbrain has cracked it, after a good nights sleep. :lol: If not I'll attempt a drawing later.**
Another "important" issue which holds people back is the notion that holding a chisel at approx 30º is extremely difficult. I'm amazed by this and interested to know how it came to be accepted. Some form of mass hysteria?
It's far easier than tying shoelaces or sharpening a pencil - we all routinely do far more difficult things every day.
A visual aid might help if you have never done it before, but the reason for the popularity of 30º is less to do with critical sharpening angles and more to do with 30º being easy to visualise, as it is a "natural" angle, along with 90, 45 and 60º. Then if you can hit one of these approximately you can then go a bit above or below for your micro-bevels, or whatever else turns you on.

Too much thinking can make things seem difficult. As Wiljoy said at the beginning, perhaps JUST GET ON WITH IT ?

*PS To put it another way - people talk themselves into technical holes, you have to be a bit technical to help them to get out. :roll:
**PPS this might help woodbrain; look for "volume of oblique prism", or ask one of your kids.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Give it a rest, Jacob. This has gone far beyond tedious.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

(Didn't have a "Do Not Feed The Troll You Silly Sods" smilie handy, unfortunately. My bad.)

Bit big, but here ya' go:

BugBear

Agreed BB

 

[Jacob]

Every time this topic comes up there is this huge, concerted and hostile effort from the opposition, to stifle it and stop it dead. The opposition isn't that substantial - the two previous posters and a few others. That's it.
We should just ignore them.
If they don't like the topic then why don't they stay away from the discussion? They have nothing interesting or useful to say after all.
Not only that but they are also aggressive, sarcastic, and offensive. Poor woodbloke contrives to call me a pig in every single post he makes! Infantile. Isn't it against the rules?
I accept that they don't understand these things and can't do them, but that doesn't mean they should decry them at every opportunity.

 

[bugbear]

I accept that they don't understand these things and can't do them, but that doesn't mean they should decry them at every opportunity.

I understand and can do your method, Jacob. There's not much to it.

I happen to think it's inferiouor to some other methods, hence your method should not be dogmatically spouted as "the answer". Beginners might believe you.

You've argued loud and long for diverse opinions to be respected, so you presumably respect mine.

I note with amusement your idea of promoting discussion is for people with opinions other than your own to cease posting.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

My views and others are well known on this subject and happen to coincide with BB's, but this is a purile, infantile 'discussion' 8) which I want no part of. I'm certainly not going to get involved in any further pig wrestling. If any newcomers out there are perplexed by this continual on-going tirade, I suggest you visit somewhere - Rob

 

[adidat]

its strange wiljoy hasnt been back to check his thread. starting to think maybe grimsdale has made a second account just to have someone to egg him on :-k :-k

adidat

 

[Jacob]

....

I understand and can do your method, Jacob.

Well done. It's not so long ago you were telling us all it was impossible

There's not much to it.

True. That's the point.

I happen to think it's inferiouor to some other methods,

Bound to be. It's about woodwork, not shaving or surgery!

hence your method should not be dogmatically spouted as "the answer". Beginners might believe you.

I think it could help some of those who struggle with the crazy sharpening paraphernalia and multiple techniques. Beginners should believe me - it's the trad method for beginners and still the best IMHO. One double sided oil stone and that's it until you have the hang of it

You've argued loud and long for diverse opinions to be respected, so you presumably respect mine....

Opinions yes, the trolling and sarcasm no.

 

[Jacob]

its strange wiljoy hasnt been back to check his thread. starting to think maybe grimsdale has made a second account just to have someone to egg him on :-k :-k

adidat

I had me doubts but he sounds like the real thing and definitely isn't one of my many alias's as far as I recall, unless they can acquire a life of their own. :shock:

... I'm certainly not going to get involved in any further pig wrestling. ...

Glad to hear it Rob, you should know by now you can't win!
I thought you were off somewhere on the 14th. What brought you back?

I strongly suggest you visit somewhere else where ..... discussions are in fact, discussions and are remarkably civilized...unlike this one

I see they locked your first thread Rob. :lol: :lol:
Very civilised of them, thank you Gill.

 

[woodbloke]

I had me doubts but he sounds like the real thing and definitely isn't one of my many alias's as far as I recall, unless they can acquire a life of their own. :shock:

If you have more than one account hereabouts on UKWorkshop, that definitely is against the rules. PM sent to the mods

(3.) Multiple Accounts
Each member is allowed one login account. Registering with multiple accounts is not allowed. - Rob

 

[LuptonM]

Jacob I think even the oldies would have gone further than a fine india stone. Ie Arkansas stones and Jewelers Rouge. Though before india stones it would have been natural stones which can be very fine - natural Japanese stones can be as fine as 30k

If you don't keep your stones flat how do u lap the backs?

 

[studders]

To be fair... I recently have been sharpening freehand using just India stones and then stropping on a bit of leather, with acceptable, if not 'surgical' results. Not as sharp as when I use the 3M film but sharp enough for the jobs I was doing.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob I think even the oldies would have gone further than a fine india stone. Ie Arkansas stones and Jewelers Rouge. ....

Well yes of course - eventually. Not sure about the rouge though - isn't that a bit OTT and un-traditional or a bit specialist? I don't know.
But a double sided stone will see most woodworkers through the first few years at least. I've gradually acquired a collection myself but mostly in a spirit of enquiry. Most are redundant.

If you don't keep your stones flat how do u lap the backs?

I do keep them flat enough, by spreading the workload, in a way that is described over and over again in the books, but which seems to have fallen out of fashion.

 

[Jacob]

......against the rules. PM sent to the mods......

Ooh, you sneak you! :lol: :lol: :lol: Just you wait til we are in the playground! :evil:
And calling me a pig behind my back! I'm going to pull your plaits Roberta you spotty cow jus u wochit! :lol: :lol:

 

[andy king]

Beginners should believe me - it's the trad method for beginners and still the best IMHO.

If you are referring to your 'crazy round under' method of sharpening... Nonsense!
This is more and more like a Monty Python sketch every time you try and justify it.
'My theory, which is mine, that belongs to me...'
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAYDiPizDIs

 

[Jacob]

Beginners should believe me - it's the trad method for beginners and still the best IMHO.

If you are referring to your 'crazy round under' method of sharpening... Nonsense!
..

I'm referring to the double sided stone.
If people want to try "the dip" then they should do it at home behind closed doors. Don't want to frighten people!

 

[bugbear]

....

I understand and can do your method, Jacob.

Well done. It's not so long ago you were telling us all it was impossible

I've pointed out the limitations and difficulties. I would welcome a cite of an occasion when I've said impossible.

Otherwise I'll assume this is one of your deliberate misquotes; your rhetoric is about as honest as you are sincere.

BugBear