• We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

Gluing brass or bronze into oak

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

El Barto

👍
Joined
20 Nov 2016
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
44
Location
North Hampshire
Has anyone done this? I want to use some brass or bronze rod for stretchers in a table; the rod would be inserted into the legs and also the table top - both oak.
 

sunnybob

wysiwyg
Joined
11 Oct 2014
Messages
8,399
Reaction score
162
Location
cyprus
No good if you need structural support. The expansion difference is so great it will break the glue fairly quickly.
If its bolted in, or just for show, then no problems.
 

Droogs

Is that chisel shar ... Ow
Joined
14 Mar 2013
Messages
4,298
Reaction score
1,278
Location
Edinburgh
If you are using the metal for strength/support, it is a bit more complicated as Sunnybob said. If you are using it as inlay then you don't actually need any glue to keep it in if the pieces are fairly short, depending on how you have inserted them. IF you use a router or some other tool to remove wood to make space for the wire/rod then you can use hide or supper glue and that is fine, If you use the traditional wire inlay technique shown in the link below then no glue is needed at all:

 

El Barto

👍
Joined
20 Nov 2016
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
44
Location
North Hampshire
Thanks guys. The stretchers wouldn't be strictly structural, but they would hopefully be adding some stiffness in the same way as a normal wooden stretcher would.
 

sunnybob

wysiwyg
Joined
11 Oct 2014
Messages
8,399
Reaction score
162
Location
cyprus
Are you thinking of them inside holes? if laid on the top as decoration then the answer is no they wont add strength or stiffness..
 

marcros

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2011
Messages
11,166
Reaction score
664
Location
Leeds
can you sketch what you are planning to do?

when I think of stretchers, I am thinking of a fairly big chunk of normally timber. Could you cross pin them in somehow, and add a mechanical element to the fixing?
 

AJB Temple

Finely figured
Joined
13 Oct 2015
Messages
3,519
Reaction score
747
Location
Tunbridge Wells
Well, they glue metal aeroplanes together, and they used to glue wooden aeroplanes together (eg Mosquito), but what they never do is glue metal and wood together. :cool:

You need to find a mechanical fixing solution for your design. Expansion coefficients are massively different.
 

El Barto

👍
Joined
20 Nov 2016
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
44
Location
North Hampshire
Here is a very sophisticated sketch showing the front, side and underside...



Usually I would be using wooden pieces for these stretchers but as it's going to be a well used table I thought bronze or brass would provide something more robust for knees to knock into etc.

Initially inspired by this chair design...

 

marcros

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2011
Messages
11,166
Reaction score
664
Location
Leeds
is there an apron to the table? how thick is the top, because I would be concerned about the legs just going through the top like that.

I have just finished reading Chris Schwarz' Anarkist's Desogn book which makes a desk with a vaguely similar concept. He increases the effective thickness of the top with a board. anarchist's design book desk . I am not sure that it scales up that well to a kitchen table.
 

El Barto

👍
Joined
20 Nov 2016
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
44
Location
North Hampshire
No aprons, just an experiment really to see what I can get away with and how stripped back a table can be while still being functional. Top is 2" thick.
 

Jake

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2004
Messages
5,282
Reaction score
128
Location
London
If this was my project, I wouldn't hesitate to give it a go with an MMA (methyl methacrylate) structural adhesive - much less brittle than epoxy, although I reckon that would probably work also I'd have less confidence. Fearsomely expensive though.
 

marcros

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2011
Messages
11,166
Reaction score
664
Location
Leeds
is the stretcher going to add much stability to the table. thinking of the table being bumped into from the side or end, I would have thought that 2 braces at right angles would have been stronger.
 

El Barto

👍
Joined
20 Nov 2016
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
44
Location
North Hampshire
is the stretcher going to add much stability to the table. thinking of the table being bumped into from the side or end, I would have thought that 2 braces at right angles would have been stronger.
I've tried a couple of orientations using clamps and offcuts, at right angles they didn't give as much stiffness as I'd hoped and also impede leg room. So I'm hoping the angled stretchers going from legs to table top eliminate that. I guess I'll find out...!

Still deciding whether to use straight grained oak or brass though...

And @Jake - thanks, I will check that out.
 

AndyT

Established Member
Joined
24 Jul 2007
Messages
12,030
Reaction score
499
Location
Bristol
Judging from experience, when I have tried to plug the nozzle with a nail, "construction adhesive" such as No More Nails or Gripfil can stick metal to plastic pretty well. I think it would be a good choice for your table, with enough elasticity to satisfy anyone worried about different expansion rates.

One minor downside is that your joints might need to a bit more gappy than usual to get the somewhat stiff adhesive in.
 

Woody2Shoes

Impressive Member
Joined
5 Jan 2015
Messages
1,926
Reaction score
284
Location
Sussex UK
I expect that these stretchers will be in tension and therefore you're looking to maximise 'pull-out resistance' - on that basis, I'd try and cut a thread in the metal at each end (same idea as why steel rebar is not smooth but 'bobbly') and widen the bottom of each hole (so it's sort of conical) and try with epoxy.
 

MikeG.

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2008
Messages
10,177
Reaction score
683
Location
Essex/ Suffolk border
I expect that these stretchers will be in tension and therefore you're looking to maximise 'pull-out resistance' - on that basis, I'd try and cut a thread in the metal at each end (same idea as why steel rebar is not smooth but 'bobbly') and widen the bottom of each hole (so it's sort of conical) and try with epoxy.
I reckon you could achieve the same grip by drilling a hole though the bar, couldn't you? That might be easier for most people rather than trying to cut a thread.
 

Woody2Shoes

Impressive Member
Joined
5 Jan 2015
Messages
1,926
Reaction score
284
Location
Sussex UK
I reckon you could achieve the same grip by drilling a hole though the bar, couldn't you? That might be easier for most people rather than trying to cut a thread.
I guess, but it's all about surface area...
 

MikeG.

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2008
Messages
10,177
Reaction score
683
Location
Essex/ Suffolk border
Is it? If the epoxy formed a "handle" through the hole in the brass ring, would it not be about the cross-sectional area of that piece of epoxy, and the strength of its attachment to the remainder of of epoxy?
 
Top