Glue through a syringe

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undergroundhunter

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Maybe a strange question but has anyone tried to but glue (cascamite) through a syringe with a blunt needle attached? I was thinking similar to the veritas chair doctor. I have some antique (not valuable or I would be using titebond hide glue) oak chairs that need some restoration as the dowel joints have come apart, I have removed the front stretcher and one of the side rails but the rear one has a decorative upright coming off it and that joint is sound so didn't want to do more disassembly then needed, hence the glue in a syringe to inject the glue then clamp until set. Anybody have any experience doing this, or is there a better way?

Thanks
Matt
 

blackrodd

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Some time ago one of the wood working mags carried adverts for the (apparently) proper glue that worked with the original animal glue, that was forced in the joint using a syringe after drilling a small hole..
I would guess and say if you can drill a small hole and flood the joint with cascamite and keep the glue in until set you would be on a "winner" Regards Rodders
 

carlb40

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If you want to wait for a day or so, i have all of the above - well not a broken chair :mrgreen:
But i have a syringe / blunt needle and cascamite so i can do a quick test tomorrow and report back for you? :)
 

Shrubby

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I wouldn't use cascamite for this repair. It won't stick to the old hide glue well. Best to use hide glue which can be injected using your syringe and blunt needle. Keep the syringe in a jar of hot water to keep the glue from gelling
Matt
 

Eric The Viking

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I've used a syringe successfully with slightly diluted PVA in the past:

December 2012: loose kitchen chair spindle backs. I had to do all six as we were expecting big people to stay for Christmas! I couldn't knock them apart, as the good joints were really solid.

I used the largest gauge hypodermic I could find (0.3mm or 0.4mm, IIRC), and used a wheel brace to drill into the void below the tenons from under the seat with a very small drill (0.5mm I think). I kept pumping until I could see it weeping round the socket. Using a wheel brace you could just about get into the right place and still avoid the back legs of the chairs.

It worked OK on most of them, but a couple came loose again after a few months. I need to try again soon, but I'll use Titebond II this time as it'll set faster than ordinary PVA.

We have a medic in the family, who can get hypodermics occasionally (expired stock etc.). They're really handy for getting wallpaper glue into air pockets, precision oiling of mechanisms, and feeding the Christmas cake! The syringes are useful for measuring two-part polyurethane too - it attacks the rubber seal but lasts long enough for about three batches a day apart, after which it's too sticky.

Doing the chairs, the PVA did leak a bit round the needle, as it wasn't a snug fit in the hole. I'll try sealing round it with blu-tac next time, or possibly try to get a better match between needle and drill. Also it might be worth drilling a second small hole to stop it airlocking (some joints were tighter than others). I can't remember if I used a pin chuck - probably did, as 0.5mm is really too small for a standard one.

And I think I blunted the needle on an oilstone first, to stop it catching in the hole (they are very sharp otherwise).

E.
 

undergroundhunter

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carlb40":3fop8uy6 said:
If you want to wait for a day or so, i have all of the above - well not a broken chair :mrgreen:
But i have a syringe / blunt needle and cascamite so i can do a quick test tomorrow and report back for you? :)

I have ordered come cascamite and syringes but if you could give it a try and report back that would be great thanks. Does anyone know if the cascamite will react with the hide glue or will it be ok gust to inject and clamp?

Matt
 

Eric The Viking

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I honestly think you'll really struggle/fail with anything more viscous than quite runny PVA. My first attempts failed with ordinary cheap PVA (i.e. already quite runny), and I had to add water and mix very well.

I've tried runny epoxy in the past - epic fail as it dissolved the rubber on the plunger.

It's all down to the bore of the needle. If you can get vetinary-sized stuff, that might help ;-)

E.
 

Eric The Viking

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KevM

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Another supplier is http://www.fibrefox.co.uk/fibre-consuma ... eedle.html they offer free delivery for orders over a tenner.

In case anybody's interested the fibre optic lapping film (http://www.fibrefox.co.uk/fibre-consuma ... type-300um) that is part of the FO termination process is the same as that used in scary sharpening. I think lately some of the suppliers aiming at the sharpening market claim to offer it on a thicker film. I can't comment on the price of the FO lapping film cf. that sold for sharpening purposes as I've never bought it, so much as 'won it'.

Usual disclaimer - no relationship with seller, I've just used them a couple of times for small orders.
 

Reggie

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ebay do good deals on syringe needles, I purchased some recently for experiments with applying solder paste, they're generally in the range of a couple of quid for 10.
 

RobinBHM

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For gluing splits I spread some glue along the split and then use a mastic nozzle to blow the glue in. I would think this may work for joints too.
 

undergroundhunter

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Well just a quick update. This is the first time that I have used cascamite and I love it. Its taking a while to go off but I think thats just doen to the fact that its freezing in my unheated workshop. It injected reasonably well using http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231080683...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and when I did my trial run it was really strong (I was making sure I had mixed it right) broke the wood not the glue line. I'm going to leave the chair in clamps until tomorrow lunch time and see how it holds. I have found out what caused the original glue to fail though, my dads wife has recovered the seats using a heavy fabric that over time has forced the joints apart. To cure this I had to remove all the coverings (old and new) plane down the frame and then recover. I have not refitted the old covering as I was in a right mess but I will keep it just in case. I haven't taken any photos of this one but I will of the second if anyone is interested.

Thanks for all you help guys.

Matt
 

ColeyS1

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undergroundhunter":8riwuz0l said:
Well just a quick update. This is the first time that I have used cascamite and I love it. Its taking a while to go off but I think thats just doen to the fact that its freezing in my unheated workshop. It injected reasonably well using http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231080683...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and when I did my trial run it was really strong (I was making sure I had mixed it right) broke the wood not the glue line. I'm going to leave the chair in clamps until tomorrow lunch time and see how it holds. I have found out what caused the original glue to fail though, my dads wife has recovered the seats using a heavy fabric that over time has forced the joints apart. To cure this I had to remove all the coverings (old and new) plane down the frame and then recover. I have not refitted the old covering as I was in a right mess but I will keep it just in case. I haven't taken any photos of this one but I will of the second if anyone is interested.

Thanks for all you help guys.

Matt
So longs its 10 degrees or more ;) think that's the minimum so the glue cures correctly

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 

yetloh

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A bit late, but you don't need to use needles, plastic syringes are available from craft shops and you can trim them to whatever size opening you want. I have used these very successfully with Cascamite.

Jim
 

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I've often pondered the injecting glue into chair joints challenge. If I had an inventors head on me I'd be looking to develope or adapt somehow a smaller version of a grease nipple which screws into a pre drilled hole say 2 to 3mm diameter then pump glue in through the nipple using something similar to a grease gun. This arrangement would ensure a massive pressure in getting glue into the joint area.....
 

Shrubby

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Syringes can already achieve high enough pressure - x-ray specs so that you drill the tiny hole into the end of the mortice would be a usefull invention
Matt
 

undergroundhunter

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ColeyS1":1kev7asy said:
undergroundhunter":1kev7asy said:
Well just a quick update. This is the first time that I have used cascamite and I love it. Its taking a while to go off but I think thats just doen to the fact that its freezing in my unheated workshop. It injected reasonably well using http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231080683...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and when I did my trial run it was really strong (I was making sure I had mixed it right) broke the wood not the glue line. I'm going to leave the chair in clamps until tomorrow lunch time and see how it holds. I have found out what caused the original glue to fail though, my dads wife has recovered the seats using a heavy fabric that over time has forced the joints apart. To cure this I had to remove all the coverings (old and new) plane down the frame and then recover. I have not refitted the old covering as I was in a right mess but I will keep it just in case. I haven't taken any photos of this one but I will of the second if anyone is interested.

Thanks for all you help guys.

Matt
So longs its 10 degrees or more ;) think that's the minimum so the glue cures correctly

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Its now out of the clamps and sat in the living room to fully cure.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Matt
 
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