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Anonymous

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Anyone seen the latest issue? What do you think? I'm particularly interested in views on DC's and Robert Ingram's columns.

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Philly

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Hi Tony,
I do enjoy F+CM, very British! :lol: David C's articles are something I look forward to every month (He is the "Tweak King"). It's nice to see Pro makers in action too.
A leg up on the "other" diy oriented mags-this is for woodies who are serious.
My fave mag is still Fine Woodworking though :D
regards,
Philly :D
 

Alf

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Tony,

I'm pretty sure DC was getting towards saying "Oooooo, look at the L-N chisels, ain't they wonderful" but somehow it got lost on the way; not in his top ten must-have articles... And he really needs to lurk on this forum to keep up with the situation vis-a-vis the Veritas planes. :lol: Robert Ingram? Never read 'em. Simple bias. He was top cheese at Parnham, Parnham was Makepeace's place, I've had to sit in Makepeace designed chairs in real life, I still get back ache thinking about them, ergo, I hate Robert Ingram with a passion. :wink: It's logic of a sort... :roll: (Of course, I'd put all that aside if there was just one piece he'd made that I liked. God knows I've tried... :roll: ) Not one of the best F&Cs to my mind; more Felder?! Six pages on biscuit jointers?! Gimme a break. :roll: John Lloyd's piece on repairing veneer, particularly the use of hot cauls, was interesting though.

Cheers, Alf

President, Opinions-R-Us :wink:
 

Pete W

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Don't know why they don't just change the name to Felder User and have done with it :roll: :D .
 

Philly

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Hoo, Hoo! :lol:
well, strong opinions on this one-someones got their knickers in a twist :D (must of been sitting in that chair......)
Now come on, F+CM beats reading articles on building planters from B+Q pine, nailed together and painted with creosote (i.e. the standard projects in most UK wood mags). There is a bias in a lot of the articles toward Pro cabinet makers, and they are too busy to get cosy about their favorite chisel. But the articles by, for instance, Kevin Ley are enjoyable and something I can identify with.
Alf, they even have a collectors page with a pretty photo! :roll:
o.k., I'll back away slowly now, there there, I going :D

Yours lightheartedly,
Philly :D
 

Noel

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Bare in mind that the mag is supposedly aimed at the industry as opposed to the likes of myself - hobby, pastime, non-commercial etc.
To be honest there is little in it that interests me other than Kevin Ley and the odd article. David Charlesworth? I think he's either running out of things to write about or his interest in the minutae of various techniques (sharpening utopia comes to mind) is spiralling out of control.
Personally I have a gleek at it in the local newsagents (amidst comments from the owner referring to libaries...) and get it if something appears interesting, otherwise it's bye bye until the next month.
But that's just my opinion..

Rgds

Noel
 

Alf

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Philly":2j7lsg8g said:
There is a bias in a lot of the articles toward Pro cabinet makers
Noely":2j7lsg8g said:
Bare in mind that the mag is supposedly aimed at the industry as opposed to the likes of myself - hobby, pastime, non-commercial etc.
Well now there I beg to differ. I used to think that (and maybe it did, at the beginning), but 6 pages on biscuit jointers, how to sharpen a chisel and so forth and eventually the penny drops. The truth is, F&C is aimed at alternatively waged woodworkers (amateurs if you will) who like to pretend they're reading a mag aimed at wage seeking woodworkers (pros, if you prefer). I mean, how many WSW will spend DC kind of time tuning up hand tools? None, unless they earn that wage teaching AWWs I'll bet. :wink: How many will have more than a passing interest in the Classic tools series? Something to laugh over during the tea break, if they can afford to take a tea break...? Nope, F&C has fallen into the same trap all the mags do eventually (and FWW is doing the same thing), trying to appeal to a "wider audience" and managing to alienate both. Too hoi pollloi for the WSWs and too much Felder for the AWW. Luckily for F&C there's no competition though, so they can get away with it.

As for DC, how on earth is he supposed to stay fresh having done his column since issue 1? He's lasted the course a lot better than DS who starts scraping the barrel every two or three years, at which point he leaves for a different mag and starts all over again. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

Bucking for promotion at Opinions-R-Us whilst also wondering who lurks here...
 

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Hi Alf

We simply have too many woodworking magazines in the UK. IIRC I think it was Andy King who said that there are 36,000 woodworkers in the UK.

Off the top of my head these are the magazines, excluding FWW etc.: -

Good Woodworking
New Woodworking
Furniture & Cabinet maker
The Router
Routing
The Woodworker
Practical Woodworking

IIRC articles are shared/repeated in The Router/New Woodworking/F&CM.

These are small circulation numbers and they are all chasing the same market. How they all keep going is way beyond me. As a result of this, we are not getting a good deal.

Cheers
Neil
 

Noel

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Could be right Alf on the wider market bit. Wasn't my opinion that the mag was aimed at the industry, thought it was actually mentioned by GMC themselves. But, maybe wrong. Agree with all on the Felder fan club point.
Just to further the discussion on diluting a magazines' original target market what bugs you on the FWW front?

Rgds

Noel
 
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Wow what have I started? Cat and Pigeons springs to mind :lol:

I started it 'cause I agree with the president when she says 'The truth is, F&C is aimed at alternatively waged woodworkers (amateurs if you will) who like to pretend they're reading a mag aimed at wage seeking woodworkers (pros, if you prefer). ' I would rather have a true pro mag as there far too many for amateurs out there.

I thought the DC article took 5 pages to say that old chisels are good. New chisels are bad. Cheap japanese chisels not as good as expensive japanese chisels (really??) and LN have a new chisel that should be good (again, really???) . What did we learn from this ? Nothing

Ingram did the same. He said, there are many ways to join wood and I will vaguely mention them with no depth and no point :?

Liked the drop leaf article - useful

The biscuit one was pants

That's better :wink:

Cheers

Tony
 

Philly

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Yeah, Alf, Yeah! :D
(By the way, have now got broadband at home, which is why I am pestering you at this hour, instead of when I am at work! :lol: )
Regards,
Philly :D
 

sawdustalley

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The mags are ok, especially New Woodworking :wink:

Talking about David Charlesworth.....highly skilled and respected guy BUT....

Correct me if you think i'm wrong....but most professional cabinetmakers I know tell me that what he says just isnt realistic in a professional working environment. They don't have TIME to spend 3 hours flattening the sole of a plane or what-not, they dont have money to spend on £300 Lie-Neilsen planes when they can achieve good enough results with their 20 year old stanley and an oilstone.
 

Newbie_Neil

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Hi James

sawdustalley":33iv9e8i said:
The mags are ok, especially New Woodworking
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

New Woodworking is probably one of the most improved magazines, in terms of quality, but imho this is primarily due to GMC recycling articles from their other titles. :roll:

The woodworking magazine market in the uk is saturated. Too many titles chasing too few readers.

In these conditions raising the quality of a magazine is very difficult as the money just won't be there to make the investment. GMC's solution is to reduce the cost base by recycling articles. That is fine until you have someone who buys two or more of their magazines and they begin to wonder why.

Cheers
Neil
 
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Alf,
Like you, I am a bit miffed at F&CM; on DC's recommendation, I sent an article for possible publication to the editor, and got no acknowledgement. OK, maybe my article did not meet their standards, but it is common courtesy at least to acknowledge receipt.

Rockerau
 
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Anonymous

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Oh, forgot to ask. Does anyone else think that Robert Ingram's cabinets are UGLY!!!!!!!

Those turqoise handles on that foul veneer urgghhhh.
 

Learner Les

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So many mags and so little time/money!
What IYHO is the best mag to suit a beginner wood breaker ? Someone who is not yet experienced or wealthy enough to want reviews on the latest high spec machinery but is interested in tips, project ideas, basic techniques on all aspects of woodworking (including turning).
 

Alf

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Neil, I agree 100% that there are too many mags, and as for GMC's habit of handing round the articles to all the other titles? :evil:

Noely":2ccj0wr4 said:
Just to further the discussion on diluting a magazines' original target market what bugs you on the FWW front?
Dunno if you've been following any of the recent discussions on the Knots forum, Noel? There's an awful lot being said there that I agree with, although I think this post probably sums up what FWW should be aiming for in my opinion. Pick any post you like complaining about the interminable router tables, tool reviews etc etc for what I don't like. :wink:

Tony, there's a Vice-President slot going if you're interested? :lol: And yes, I'm afraid I agree about your ugly comment. Immaculate workmanship though, I'm sure.

James, just a smidgeon of bias there? :wink:

Rockerau, I'm beginning to think common courtesy is getting as rare as common sense. :(

Les, Good Woodworking for my money.

You know, the real irony about us grumbling away about the terrible state of UK mags? The 'Murricans are busily complaining about theirs and holding up the likes of F&C as being oh-so-much better... Go, as they say, figure. :lol:

Cheers, Alf
 

Philly

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Have to admit- Ringhams cabinets are incredibly well put together. But as to the styling-not my cup of tea. But then beauty is in the eye of the beholder........
Cheers,
philly :D
 

Steve Maskery

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This is all very interesting. Personally I get only FWW and GWW. I very rarely buy F&C if I see a nice design which I think I may be able to adapt in the future, otherwise that's it. And I buy FWW ony out of habit, I don't thnk it's as good as it used to be (but then I think we all get to the point where we think we have seen it all before). I have Woodworkers going back to 1987-1997.

Now a question. Does anyone here actually tell the editorial staff what they want out of a mag? Write and say an article was good? Request a particular article? Tell them so-and-so writes stuff we like, whatsisname doesn't? The only team I'm really familiar with is GWW, and they are a very small team. They are VERY busy. They are not telepathic. When something goes wrong, (like last month's debacle) everybody moans at them. But when they have a string of fairly strong issues (as there had been until then) everybody takes it for granted. I can say for myself that it makes a HUGE difference on the (sadly, rare) occasion that I get feedback on the articles I write. It gives me a great kick to know that somebody likes my stuff enough to get in the workshop and make their own version of it.

I agree there are too many mags, and GMC is largely to blame. I'm all in favour of recycling, but they take the mickey. But even with fewer mags, the quality won't go up without the people who produce them getting construnctive feedback from their readership.

Incidentally, it was just such feedback which got me into writing in the first place. I wrote and answered a reader's query. At the same time I say "Hey guys, how about and article about the fine line between design inspiration and plagiarism?"

"Great", they said, "Would you like to write it?". So I did.

Come on guys, lets help them to help us. :p

Cheers
Steve
 

Pete W

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Tony said:
Oh, forgot to ask. Does anyone else think that Robert Ingram's cabinets are UGLY!!!!!!!quote]

Yes! Oh yes!!

As for the other mags, I do like GWW but FWW is still my favourite. But then, my woodworking experience only covers the last half-dozen issues so I haven't yet exhausted its appeal.

I have a lot of sympathy for the mags - I've been a magazine journalist (in the IT market) for more than 20 years. But I've also been a hobbyist of varying sorts for the same time - photography, astronomy, and now woodworking. And you always exhaust the magazines because there's never enough that's new after two or three years.

The only thing that changes is equipment, but once you've invested in the necessary tools, you're only really interested in reviews when you're looking to buy something specific.

So all magazines rely on a steady influx of newcomers to survive, because they simply can't generate enough material to interest the old hands.
 
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