Funding of UK Workshop

[Spectric]

I think this needs bringing into context, I cannot believe anyone would really be that upset at getting access to such a wealth of knowledge for £20 a year or 38 pence a week. No one is forcing anyone to have to pay, you can have it all for nothing but there are a lot of people around with a lifetime of knowledge and experience in allsorts of fields and we have access to others like Peter at WWW and Mr Millard so as Mr Akirk has said it is a commercial enterprise and don't worry about being ask to pay because that is your choice and I think this is a much better forum than the so called other one.

 

[D_W]

I shouldn’t feel like I’m being discriminated against for not being a paid member.

Unless there is a hugely limited number of functions for not paying, this is sort of a self-imposed fear.

We're not going to know the business details of privately owned forums unless the forum owner wants to do something favorable to them. Imagine if you walked into a restaurant, asked for a free glass of water, looked at the menu, and then said "hey, I want to see your books and your tax bills before I agree to these prices".

There are probably two realistic non-contributor money makers:
1) advertising - but advertisers are looking for something favorable ultimately. A bunch of users who are past the point of buying things but who spend gobs of time in the OT section aren't really worth much
2) creating a data profile of you and everyone on here to sell the data. I'd bet that part mitigates the cost of the software. I think we're the product, not the consumer. That's mostly true everywhere on the internet, though. And off of it (with TVs, etc. that snip audio bits and viewing habits and sell the data for targeted advertising).

There's too much garment rending over whether or not a forum is doing what someone wants, which is maybe a symptom of not really being that interested in the topic in the first place.

 

[Noel]

I would contribute if you did a dark theme for the evening.
Some sites have a graph showing running costs & what covers
it. E.g advertisements donations, you can add a bar showing percentage
to cover each month.
As for getting messages it all part of the moderators job to raise funds
just read deleted or donate, no one is twisting our arm.
Great site the No 1 go to for a problem & if people just use the
search before asking questions, well.

Moderators do not get involved in raising funds/income.

 

[SamG340]

I was on a larger forum recently closed down, it used to take £250+ every month in donations often more.

I think £1.70 is quite reasonable

 

[Daniel2]

These constant requests to support the site are getting very obnoxious, I’ve had two to my “conversations” this week.

It would be very interesting to know how much it costs to run the site and exactly how many supporting members there are paying the yearly fee, the revenue from adverts, sponsors, affiliate links, etc, and whether it already covers it or not. I don’t appreciate being constantly badgered about being a paid member in the name of “We need you to support us” if the forum is already making a healthy profit.

I shouldn’t feel like I’m being discriminated against for not being a paid member.

So, you are basically a freeloader then ?

 

[screwpainting]

So what?

 

[Against_The_Grain]

We're not going to know the business details of privately owned forums unless the forum owner wants to do something favorable to them. Imagine if you walked into a restaurant, asked for a free glass of water, looked at the menu, and then said "hey, I want to see your books and your tax bills before I agree to these prices".

I would agree with that example, but the difference is that they're asking me to support them as though it's very important to the survival of the forum. You could have a beggar on the street dressed in rags, but after his day of collecting money off passerbys he goes home to his multi-million-pound mansion, which I suspect the people who gave him money out of generosity would be quite miffed about. Read the messages for yourself, with titles like "We Need You" and "I'm Calling On You" and starting with the message with "Please don't ignore this, it's very important" and "We need you to upgrade your account" it does seem like begging to me, which I would understand if the forum was struggling and they were desperate for money to keep it going, but it is a for-profit enterprise with dozens of forums under its banner so I would be very skeptical about parting with money without actually seeing how much it costs to run vs the amount of money being brought in by all the numerous adverts, affiliate links and membership schemes. It just rubs me up the wrong way and I would assume it does the same for others.

So, you are basically a freeloader then ?

Well, to say I'm a freeloader would be to assume I get anything out of being on this site without giving anything back, to load up freely as it were. I don't think I've gained anything meaningful in my short time here beyond simply enjoying posting my experiences in the wood machining industry to help others. I know for others it is different as they come here with questions and are looking for answers or to learn something new so they feel like they're getting a lot out of the site so they are quite happy to support it for that reason, but I would need a more compelling reason to do so, and I have no interest in some members-only angry politics/sharpening debate category. If I am a freeloader and not welcome to be here I can leave if that's what the membership wants.

 

[mikej460]

Moderators do not get involved in raising funds/income.

err this is the pm sent to me from a moderator...

 

[D_W]

I would imagine we all got the same message. They didn't say they were going to go under, so I wouldn't take any implication from the message beyond what it says literally. What's it really worth to get upset about something that may not even be or wasn't intended to be implied in the first place?

Compare this to a blue forum in the US where the actual owner complains loudly (that one is also for profit as far as I can tell, but takes advantage of a loophole in the use of .org suffixes, which makes a lot of people think it's a NFP site) and talks about people using ad blockers and the decline in revenue and wanting everyone to donate instead of what's similar to here - except maybe a higher % of contributors there. I think most of the people think they're contributing to a not for profit site, but any such question about the status will be smashed or lectured "it's none of your business".

Well, if I open my wallet, it is.

I don't know if I've contributed to this site. I've contributed to others in the past, but at this point, only if it provides something valuable that's tangibly different which wouldn't be possible here. In the US, it can be something simple like $10 for a year of access to classifieds in something expensive - like musical instruments, where one transaction on a selling site is going to take $50 or more out of your pocket.

I guess what I'm getting toward is what will happen if you just ignore it instead. What If they're perfectly fine with you not contributing but are hoping to raise a little bit more from folks who will.

 

[Spectric]

err this is the pm sent to me from a moderator...

I think that there might be basic moderators and then enhanced models who are also admin and so maybe Noel was right when

Moderators do not get involved in raising funds/income.

but missed out that it is the basic ones who don't.

It would also be more courteous to sign off with a name rather than just thanks or god bless.

 

[Dovetail]

1. Moderators had nothing to do with the PMs that went out. And never had anything to do with the fund raising. They are volunteers.
2. These messages go out once. There are a few types for different time frames. If you don't want to support, just delete/leave the conversation and go on your regular forum activities.
3. There are daily costs and and a few people keeping the forum running. And no one is getting rich over a forum these days.
4. We do host the images and prefer it that way so image hosting companies cannot screw up a good thread by making you pay to share your photo to a forum. (photo bucket anyone)?
5. My name is the one on all those pms. I'm admin and a moderator.
6. If you think this is to make you feel badly for not supporting, that's up to you. Everyone that was welcome before the pm was sent are still welcome here if they choose to help out with a few pence a day, (less than a store bought cup of coffee or tea) or if they decide not too.
7. You do provide content to help each other.
8. BIG ONE - we have never and do not sell information to anyone. EVER. And even if a buddy wants to contact you, they don't get your information but I'll ask if I can give you their information so it's your choice to contact them or not.

I think that answers most of the questions and statements I've seen in this thread.

Bottom line. If you want help defray cost and let the owners make a couple of pences a day or week, Thank You!
For those that decide not to or not in a position to help, you are welcome also.
All members are valued.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

2. These messages go out once. There are a few types for different time frames. If you don't want to support, just delete/leave the conversation and go on your regular forum activities.

So the "Please don't ignore this. It's very important" line means nothing at all and I can just ignore it? That seems a bit contradictory if you ask me.

3. There are daily costs and and a few people keeping the forum running. And no one is getting rich over a forum these days.

Perhaps not from a singular forum, but when you're managing well over 50 I would guess even if only 10 of them are this size and larger it all adds up to a fair sum which is practically completely passive income, for the most part moderators deal with all the drama on the forum, once the software is all set up and working you rarely need to look at it again. I don't wish to be confrontational but if you beg of me twice in one week to part with my hard-earned money and sign up for membership "to help the forum", you need a very good reason to do so in my opinion otherwise you end up looking in a bad light, which isn't helped by the fact if you google "Groupbuilder" it brings up all sorts of results including really interesting ones detailing really dodgy business practices.

 

[Noel]

I think that there might be basic moderators and then enhanced models who are also admin and so maybe Noel was right when


but missed out that it is the basic ones who don't.

It would also be more courteous to sign off with a name rather than just thanks or god bless.

@mikej460 @Spectric
As explained-
There are moderators (Mike and meself) and then the admin staff. (Dovetail & co). Mike and I are not involved in raising funds/income.

 

[Dovetail]

It is very important. But since several on the forum may not have a cash flow or they have other reasons that this is not a good time for them, I don't want them to think they have to leave.

So I'll conclude this thread with, anyone that cares to help and be a Supporting Member - it is greatly appreciated.
And for those that choose not to, or this is not the time for them to do it - you are appreciated and welcome to stay as usual.