Front door panels appear crooked

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm with others here that have noticed the frame looks out of square, with an acute angle formed at the top right corner, and an obtuse angle (>90º) at the top left. It looks as if the carpenter has trimmed the top rail to suit this. How does the door's top rail look from the inside? I'm guessing it will show the same sort of angling, going from narrower on the right (as you look from the inside) to wider at the left. I don't think there's anything you can really do to fix this specific door in that opening. I do wonder though if a door with an arched or curved profile on the bottom edge of the top rail would better disguise the drooping door frame - just a thought, but would involve further expense, i.e., a replacement door, probably custom made.

I have the impression the hanging stile looks wider than the lock stile. Am I the only one that can see that? Am I imagining it? Or might it just be the way the insulation protrudes out from the frame, or possibly the door hardware that's somehow giving me that impression? Anyway, just a thought on that. Slainte.

 

[Turbot]

The carpenter who fitted the door has just replied to my email.

He still has the original door that was taken out and has noticed that a wedge of wood was inserted to make it look ‘square’!

 

[thetyreman]

the top rail simply does not look wide enough compared to the middle and bottom one, I'm guessing half of it is hidden inside the frame? if not it doesn't match at all and would have to be custom made to be wider than normal just so it looks correct from the outside..

the seal doesn't look particularly well installed, it's a bit rough looking.

in an ideal world you'd re-make the frame and door together.

 

[AJB Temple]

Terrible job. Frankly it needs to go in a skip and start again.

What is wrong with the original door? Can it not be repaired?

 

[Turbot]

I think what the carpenter is proposing is to add some wood to the top of the door, thereby increasing the size of the top rail (which at the moment looks too small relative to the rest of the door and accentuates the overall lack of symmetry); and then make the bottom rail smaller to accommodate the increased size of the top rail.

What does everyone think?

 

[AndyT]

That might help, but I don't think it's the whole problem.

I think the new door looks flimsy because all the stiles and rails are a bit narrow, even without the obtrusive draught excluder making it look worse. It ends up looking like an interior or cupboard door, not a front door.
If you compare widths of the new door against the old one, are those structural parts narrower?

 

[Turbot]

Yes, the new widths are narrower than the old. We used to be able to fit the door numbers (1 and 4) side by side; but no longer...

 

[Jacob]

The carpenter said he had to have the door made because it wasn’t a standard size. We waited months for it to be made, with him having to chase the factory up, etc. So it’s a mystery to me that it isn’t better proportioned (e.g. the rails). Something doesn’t add up; but I trust the carpenter.

Doing an exact replica of the original door would be a specialised and different job altogether. He's done a vaguely similar modern four panel door, at a fair price, but not the same thing at all. For many people this would pass and they wouldn't notice the difference.
I'd get the old door back as it's your only reference.

 

[Turbot]

This is the original door

 

[Doug71]

If he adds a bit to the top of the door all the hinges and keeps will need moving and the gaps left will need filling.

 

[Jacob]

This is the original door

What's wrong with it? it looks in good nick. Or if not then definitely OK for repair/restoration.
It's what I used to do a lot of (more windows than doors) and would involve boarding up or fitting a temporary door and bringing the restored door back some weeks later. Not cheap if there's a lot to do to it. £1k ish. If not too bad could be done in situ for a lot less. If completely replaced/replicated a lot more.
Restoration work should leave the thing looking completely as original but just in good condition, so nobody would even notice it..
What you've had is a replacement with a different (cheaper) class of door altogether.

 

[SBJ]

Not an easy one. Ignoring what 'should' have been done for now, what your eye is picking up is the line of the shadow of the bottom of the top rail and the frame. I think if you paint it a dark colour you'll lose some of that effect. Whether it will be enough for it to be satisfactory I'm not sure, only you will know when you do it!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Trevanion]

Unusually, I actually agree with Jacob on this one.

The original door looked pretty sound unless there were some dirty secrets hidden under the paint or something else we can't see from the photo, wouldn't have been too much work to redo the paintwork nicely to a high standard.

Adding wood to the top of the door is a real botch, don't let him do that. The glue joint will reappear through the paint after a month and it will look horrendous, the paint will crack at the glue joint letting water in and it will rot away the tops of the stiles, I've seen it before.

 

[That would work]

This is the original door

Looks like a nice door... what was wrong with it?

 

[AJB Temple]

As I said, what's wrong with the original door. My starting point would have been (and still would be) refurbish that. The new one is never going to look good.

 

[toolsntat]

The doors upside down :shock:

Or is it the knocker? #-o

 

[Trevanion]

The doors upside down :shock:

Or is it the knocker? #-o

Good spot!

 

[Turbot]

Thanks everyone. You’ve been really helpful and I’m very grateful.

The carpenter took the old door away after fitting the new one, but I’ve now asked him to hold onto it so we have the option of refurbishing. The old door does look so much better, I agree. But it was letting the daylight through, and I thought it would be straightforward getting a replacement. You live and learn.

I’ve taken all your points on board and will chat to the carpenter (who is thankfully a nice bloke).

PS I don’t know why my photos upload sideways. Doesn’t happen anywhere else!

 

[deema]

Let me offer an alternative view. The door frame was originally fitted out of true. It was carelessly popped into the opening, probably wedged and fixed where every it touched no care was given to ensure it was straight and true.

The original door was equally thrown into the hole, and since it looked a little odd a couple of pieces of wood added to mask the terrible original figment. The door fits were it touches with daylight visible from the inside.

Now along comes a joiner to fit a new door as requested. They have a door made and fit it. Your happy with how it fits but not the aesthetics. If the ‘old master’ couldn’t get the original door to aesthetically fit properly the new door had no chance of looking right without the sane botch. As Jacob states you make a door extra big and fit, which I would suggest is exactly what they did as the new door fits.

The proposal is to refurbish an old door. The old door doesn’t fit, it’s too small. It has a bodged top rail to cure the aesthetics. It will no doubt have spliced in bits as it will have been repaired over the years. What ever is done to the old door can be done to the new to ‘cure’ the aesthetics. Your decision which route you go down.

The only way to correct the bodged up rubbish initial installation by the ‘old master’ is to remove and replace the whole frame. I’ve done enough doors in old properties to believe that most were fitted by people who had little if any skill. Out of true, sloping forward or backward and with the jambs twisted to each other is fairly standard fitting practice! Drafts were accepted when the dour was originally fitted, the main criteria seemed to be that it fitted the hole!

It was standard practice to repair doors and frames by splicing in new pieces. Often the bottom of the frame rots out and new pieces about 2’ long are inserted over the years. This had nothing to do with preserving original fittings, but rather down to economics, it was cheaper to do!

What ever you decide to do, I wouldn’t be too hard on the joiner who installed the door. It was mission impossible to achieve perfection. Equally I wouldn’t get too bleary eyed about the old door. It’s not a complex door, little moulding on it and flat panels would suggest it was ‘budget’ end. The ‘craft’ of how it was probably made and definitely installed is on display, and that which we can see was done with little to no skill!

 

[Trevanion]

Levels were expensive back then! :lol: