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marcros

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is this guy known by you personally? there have been various discussions so far that I have seen, but I personally think it is stretching the aim of the forum for sale section using it to advertise on behalf of an unknown third party.

I think it was agreed in principle that we would want to allow the sale of estates from close friends/relations but this feels a step further away from that.

The other side of the coin is that it may be of benefit to members being able to buy tools. is it any different to an "I've seen a tool on gumtree" post though?
 

sploo

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is this guy known by you personally? there have been various discussions so far that I have seen, but I personally think it is stretching the aim of the forum for sale section using it to advertise on behalf of an unknown third party.

I think it was agreed in principle that we would want to allow the sale of estates from close friends/relations but this feels a step further away from that.

The other side of the coin is that it may be of benefit to members being able to buy tools. is it any different to an "I've seen a tool on gumtree" post though?
Personally to the degree that I met him yesterday and he seems genuine and friendly. He's not particularly Internet savvy, and is faced with dealing with his brother's collection of tooling (and not enough knowledge of the tools).

Apart from two lathes (one moderately large, the other tiny) it's mostly hand tools and power tool accessories (e.g. Veritas tenon cutters, micrometers, taps and dies, chucks etc). Many things are unopened and never used (he did mention his brother was a bit of a collector).

Just thought it might be an opportunity for some members to benefit; whilst also helping him with his clearing task.
 

AES

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Personally I can't see any problem with sploo's request. It MAY not be within "the letter of the law" but surely the whole "spirit" of having a For Sale section is to offer the members a chance to get hold of tools - possibly rare, possibly "just" useful - at good prices.

sploo's mate is obviously not in business as a tool dealer, AND sploo has met him/vouches for him.

Personally I would OK such a For Sale post - after all, sploo COULD have said "these are my tools". I'm not saying he would, obviously he is not doing that, but in a similar circumstance a member COULD say that and the rest of us wouldn't be any the wiser.

"It's a YES from me"! :)
 

sploo

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Thanks AES. Marcros is right (in that it's "someone I've just met"). I guess the question in my mind is: where are the negatives? I.e. who loses (and how) by having the opportunity to contact someone for some potentially useful tools.

I won't post on the For Sale forum unless @Angie gives the OK; "she's da boss" and all that.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I sold here some while ago some chisels. About two hundred. How did anyone know whether I was selling for a dealer or dealing myself?
 
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marcros

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Thanks AES. Marcros is right (in that it's "someone I've just met"). I guess the question in my mind is: where are the negatives? I.e. who loses (and how) by having the opportunity to contact someone for some potentially useful tools.

I won't post on the For Sale forum unless @Angie gives the OK; "she's da boss" and all that.
Ultimately, it is for the mods to decide. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate on this one there is no other intent than to try and do both the seller and the membership a favour and many people wouldn't have bothered asking whether it was allowed.

The negatives for me are:

Firstly, the board could end up flooded with posts saying that there are some tools for sale on my village notice board, I dont know anything about them, etc. Or worse still, "there is a cheap lathe for sale on ebay in Glasgow for anybody that is interested." you look and it is an auction with an opening bid of £150 with 8 days to go, so is a completely pointless post. it then continues and posts with "I am selling my tools on ebay if anybody is interested" and at that point the posts have no benefit for members. This is not a remote step away from what is being requested.

Secondly, as a result of the current rules there is a higher level of confidence in what is being bought and sold above those on ebay. Aside from Phil's blunt chisels, we see hardly any complaints about "I went to collect this and it wasn't as described". It is still buyer beware but things seem to be well listed, with photos and accurately described. Allowing non members to post for sale items in limited circumstances because a member is sponsoring the post with their own reputation maintains that current situation. The situation under discussion is now a somebody that a member has met once when buying some bits that the seller didn't himself have any knowledge of. This is back to the ebay level of risk. Ask yourself, if you are buying a hand plane, would you be happiest buying from 1. a member on here, 2. ebay, 3. somebody that somebody else has met once and bought some completely different tools from.

Thirdly, the person is a random person off the street. I accept that it is very sad circumstances but the person has no interest in becoming a member and will probably never even see the post online. It isnt a colleague at work who is known well, a relative, a friend even, it is a person previously unknown before a chance meeting. Unless the tools are rare and/or unusual (in which case ebay might be a better result for the seller), the benefit to members is limited because it is likely to be collect only, no guarantee, general market prices.

could/should the post be allowed on the general forum as a "heads up" post? That way it differentiates items being sold by members on this site and still provides the [limited] benefit to members.
 

AES

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Good point Phil. The answer to your Q is "we don't", EXCEPT by "knowing" the poster as a regular & trusted member here. And as already said, "Who looses". Personally I can't see any negatives for us (Forum).

BUT marcros is quite right - as presently written, sploo's "request" is NOT within the rules. (AFAIK).

But then we get back to the earlier discussions about whether or not it's "right" (or even possible) to cover all the potential "correct/incorrect" situations within any set of rules.

Personally I feel that while it MAY be possible to cover "all" (?) situations in a new set of rules, we shouldn't even try.

I think we all know what we want to achieve and what we want to prevent, and personally I'm a great believer in the old saying about "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men".

While I certainly NOT claim to be a wise man myself, I do believe that sploo's example is a perfect example of where we should exercise "a bit of common sense" in applying the rules. Yes, we MAY get taken to the cleaners with such an approach once in a while, but we already have "sanctions" against any member who takes the mickey.

Meantime, there have been several instances of this type that have happened in the past, and while I understand and accept a "direct application" of the rules (as in the past), I believe that such direct applications result only in a loss to all members.

Edit for P.S. Obviously, my post (above) crossed with marcros' (above that). Sorry, but no change in my stance as far as I can see.

So to sploo, it's still a "Yes from me" (but I will abide by the Mods/Admin/majority in such cases). BUT marcros DOES make valid points - at least to a certain extent.
 

sploo

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Ultimately, it is for the mods to decide. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate on this one there is no other intent than to try and do both the seller and the membership a favour and many people wouldn't have bothered asking whether it was allowed.

The negatives for me are:

Firstly, the board could end up flooded with posts saying that there are some tools for sale on my village notice board, I dont know anything about them, etc. Or worse still, "there is a cheap lathe for sale on ebay in Glasgow for anybody that is interested." you look and it is an auction with an opening bid of £150 with 8 days to go, so is a completely pointless post. it then continues and posts with "I am selling my tools on ebay if anybody is interested" and at that point the posts have no benefit for members. This is not a remote step away from what is being requested.

...


could/should the post be allowed on the general forum as a "heads up" post? That way it differentiates items being sold by members on this site and still provides the [limited] benefit to members.
Absolutely agree on the "I've seen this on eBay" type posts. Not appropriate for the For Sale forum.

Posting on the general forum for this kind of sale is an interesting idea though. That way the For Sale forum is only for member's personal sales. The risk is of course spamming of the general forum with sale posts!
 
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MikeG.

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We've a horse and cart situation here....new mod/s promised this week, and rules which many want changed but the old owners and mod team did not. I suspect that we might have to wait for the new mods to get their feet under the table before we see any movement on the For Sale rules. Trying to get them changed with the last of the old mods still in place might just be cart-before-horse..............
 

sploo

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We've a horse and cart situation here....new mod/s promised this week, and rules which many want changed but the old owners and mod team did not. I suspect that we might have to wait for the new mods to get their feet under the table before we see any movement on the For Sale rules. Trying to get them changed with the last of the old mods still in place might just be cart-before-horse..............
Ah, the Porsche design model?
1600085280586.png
 

Blister

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For sale rules
I have a 6" and 12 " , could do with a 36" if you have any :)
 

billw

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Well, I'm interested in whatever Sploo's contact is offering. It doesn't exactly sound like a scam, or an opportunist thief, or someone "trying it on" to bend the rules. OK, I saw the word Veritas and my wallet lit up.
 

Angie

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@sploo - in my role a "overlord" that someone gave me, I hereby decree that this is a one time okay to post what you've seen. I've got one I may be posting here in a bit. I have to find my PM.

And guys, you don't want this settled any more than I do. I'm sorry it's taking longer than expected.
 

RobinBHM

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Well you haven't read those 11 pages very carefully, then. We're in pretty good agreement. There's no conflict over the basic concept of freeing up the For Sale section whilst maintaining some sort of barrier to posting there. There is a set of proposed rules which have been well received, and the guy who put forward his own version has dropped in behind the simpler version. You are the very first person to advocate removing the For Sale section altogether, and if you were to put that idea to a vote, you'd lose heavily.
I think the for sale section is a valuable part of this forum -Ive bought quite a few items over the years, never had an isuue, generally the items are in super condition and very reasonably priced.

the for sale section also means a few members meet each other.

it seems like a win win.

the main issue Ive seen is the occasional person who has a paddy when he gets a mod intervention because of not following the rules.
 

sploo

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@sploo - in my role a "overlord" that someone gave me, I hereby decree that this is a one time okay to post what you've seen. I've got one I may be posting here in a bit. I have to find my PM.

And guys, you don't want this settled any more than I do. I'm sorry it's taking longer than expected.
Thanks Angie!

I'll sort out the photos, and make the situation clear when I post.
 

Darrenp

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Wow!!!
I have never seen so much squabbling and back biting in my life !
I am new to the forum and enjoy reading and learning from the many interesting contributions from the talented and experienced members.
I don’t have a lot to say as I am hear to learn but the “ you have to post x amount of comments “ seems a little strange to me.
it appears to me that if I would like a chance to buy or sell on the forum then unless I have a constructive comment to make ( and as a newbie who is here to learn I don’t ) I should just bombard the forum with meaningless comments to get my post count up to the required level.
I understand the forum wants to protect its members but I assume the vast majority of them are adults whom can be held responsible for their own decisions on whether they feel a purchase/transaction is above board and safe.
 
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clogs

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mentioned just above about meeting other members of the forum.....

If I lived in the UK I'd have an open day in the summer at my workshop with home made tea and cakes......
Sadley this won't happen here.....
As for the above sale or not for sale.....It be nice to sell/buy from/to a memeber.....but for some of us that will never happen....
was told early on, "life is just luck and Geography"
Have a great weeknd.....from not so sunny Crete.....hahaha........
 
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