Flying Goblet - ** Not Flying Anymore**

[Taffy Turner]

Yup - turning is one of the best ways of filling up your workshop and emptying your wallet!!!!

If you are as much of a novice as you claim, might I respectfully suggest a course of some kind. I went on a 3 day course at Craft Supplies, and it helped me enormously. Gets you past that horribly frustrating stage where you have loads of ideas for things you want to make, and can't make any of them as you lack the requisite techniques. Also it was a lot of fun!

If you pick up a copy of Woodturning mag, there are loads of adverts for instruction / courses in the back. Or I believe Mike (Cutting Crew) who contributes regularly to this forum also offers tuition.

Gary

 

[UKTony]

Novice...on my 2nd bowl - 5 books and 3 videos has been my tuition so far

Your right about training - Was trying to find someone local to do a one on one course, for a few hours too much work to get away for 3 days have emailed a couple of people from the Association of woodturners but have yet to recieve a reply...Peter Childs is not far from me so will also try them for a one day course

 

[mudman]

No complaints from the wife yet - ive given up smoking and as part of my rehabilitation im getting to spend my £70.00 a week saving on tools for as long as i can drag it out 8)

Good incentive to stay on the straight and narrow then, but I hope that last pun there was unintentional. :wink:

Gary is right as well. You can't go wrong in investing in a short course of instruction.

 

[frank]

tony have you looked to see if there are any clubs local to you, when you say it went flying was it as you started to hollow it out ,and did you start in the centre and work to the edge ,or just started with the scraper ,i'm sure the turners on here can explain it better than me ,i'm just a novice aswell so it might be a case of the blind leading the blind . :?

 

[UKTony]

Had another go tonight with a longer spigot jaws were very tight, was ok working along the wood, when i tried to hollw the blank came loose, tried it with a screw chuck and the same thing happened, so its down to me and end grain turning. I'm following the video by pushing the gouge into the centre then as i start to work from the centre out the workpiece starts to loosen, blank is about 4 inches long, frustrating night, but i did manage to make an egg which looked like a lemon after giving up on the goblet

 

[mudman]

Tony,

Do you get a dig-in that causes it to move or does it just seem to drift off?

 

[UKTony]

It seems to be a mixture of the two more dig in than is coming loose?

T

 

[mudman]

A dig-in could knock it out of line. Personally I don't think the spigot is a very secure method of holding the work and you have to be very careful with what you are doing.

Not sure what others think but you could try using a faceplate at first until you get more experience as it is a lot more forgiving of dig-ins. You do get the added fun of parting-off and making sure you don't hit the screws. :?

 

[Cutting Crew]

Hello Tony,

After returning from the US I've just been catching up on the forum, sorry to hear about your "Flying Goblet" problems.

Taffy is right about taking lessons, think about when you see babies learning to walk there's always someone there to catch them, videos and books are excellent for getting knowledge into your head but you can't beat hands on teaching. More and more turners of all levels are going on courses, as an example all my dates are booked up well into the new year, from basic turning, texturing and colouring work through to hollow forms.

Reading the posts, one of the points I can't understand is the maximum RPM on your chuck. As I've mentioned before I use Axminster or Vicmarc chucks and these run at much higher RPM, up to 3000 I think for the Vicmarc. Turning a goblet about 3" across I would expect to be turning at well over 1000 RPM probable more like 1500.

I'll try and describe how I would start to turn a goblet if that helps.

Firstly after mounting the blank between centres I will square off one end to form a spigot (tenon). Measuring the chucks "C" type jaws, (similar to the top Nova photograph shown on the forum) the spigot should be the same depth as the measurement from the front of the jaws to the step inside. On the Axminster this is roughly 6mm. I also create a dovetail to get maximum grip from the jaws, the dovetail points into the blank. The only time I would use a straight spigot is when I use the "Shark" type jaws (the bottom Nova photograph) I then remove the blank from between centres and mount it into the "C" type jaws.
I then set my lathe speed and start on the bowl end of the goblet, Get to the rough outside shape I'm looking for then start hollowing out from the cente to the outer edges, this way I also get a cleaner cut as I am cutting "downhill" over the fibres rather than into them. Most of the walls of the goblets I turn are about 1/16" thick.

Hope this helps.

Regards....Mike

 

[Taffy Turner]

Had another go tonight with a longer spigot jaws were very tight, was ok working along the wood, when i tried to hollw the blank came loose, tried it with a screw chuck and the same thing happened, so its down to me and end grain turning. I'm following the video by pushing the gouge into the centre then as i start to work from the centre out the workpiece starts to loosen, blank is about 4 inches long, frustrating night, but i did manage to make an egg which looked like a lemon after giving up on the goblet

Tony,

A screw chuck isn't normally very good at holding in end grain, and can lead to grief. If you want a secure hold, drill a hole across the flats of the blank about 1/2" in from the end you want to grip, and then glue a dowel into the hole. That way, when you mount it on the screw chuck, the screw will be holding in the side grain of the dowel (if you see what I mean). Much more secure that way.

FWIW - don't get discouraged - hollowing end grain is tricky until you aquire the knack - don't be put off by the inevitable catches, and if all else fails, don't be ashmed to use a scraper (light cuts!!!).

Hope this helps.

Gary

 

[UKTony]

Mike

Thanks for the reply, i have not tried a dovetail yet will try again later may just do the trick since extending the tenon made no difference. i've just watched Chris Stotts video again and he makes some practical suggestions about using the screwchuck which i will also try out.

i've managed to book myself on an evening class in January in stevenage so will perservere with trial and error until then

Many thanks to everyone who has helped, promise to post a pic if i get something produced that looks like a goblet

Glad people have also worked out my Yellow and Orange quote from my Daughter

 

[Cutting Crew]

Hello Tony,

As Taffy rightly says, screwchucks into end grain don't work to well.

I've tried to add a drawing of the spigot and jaw setup Spigot Setup

Hope this helps.

Regards....Mike

 

[mudman]

As to spigot shape, here's the bit from the manual:

FORMING SPIGOT: When selecting wood make sure it is sound without splits or weakness -
especially around the area where the spigot is to be formed. REMEMBER WITH FREE END TURNING, THIS IS THE ONLY AREA GRIP. IF ANY WEAKNESS IS FOUND, DO NOT PROCEED.
Mount wood between centres and turn the spigot area. Make the spigot as parallel as possible to maximise the efficiency of the clamping action. Only approximate sizing of the spigot is necessary, as the jaws will accommodate a wide range of spigot diameters within the spigot limits stated above. The 50mm standard jaw has a thin lip or shoulder at the front face. This is designed to bite into the timber as the jaws are tightened. DO NOT CUT A RECESS FOR THE LIP TO FIT INTO, AS THIS WILL REDUCE GRIPPING POWER.

Note that they are saying that the spigot should be straight, but there again, if it doesn't work, then you might as well try the dovetail method. I was wondering if any other Supernova owners form a dovetail spigot? If this does give a better grip then I for one would use this in future.

 

[UKTony]

Many Many thanks to all those that gave me some advice, the dovetail worked and i also found it easier using the round nose scraper on the inside as mentioned by a couple of people. This is my first attempt sanded and polished...candle for photographic effect

 

[mudman]

Tony,

Congratulations!
Nice looking as well, I bet you're well pleased with yourself.
I was having a look at my 50mm jaws today and they are quite straight apart from the bulge for gripping. I am wondering if the bulge may in fact prevent you from getting a descent grip in a hard wood that is overcome by having the extra bulge in the wood below.
I think I shall have to give this method a go myself (when I can get rid of the furniture, almost there, another weekend then SWMBO won't be seeing me for all of the next).

Cheers,
Mudman

Who sometimes, maybe, perhaps believes what they say in the instructions just a tad too much. :?

 

[Cutting Crew]

Hello Mudman,

You make an excellent point about the jaws not being able to get a decent grip in hard wood.

I for one can't understand the Nova manual stating to cut a square spigot. There is no way any amount of pressure applied to the chuck key will make the jaws seat properly in hard wood.

By cutting a dovetailed spigot as other chuck suppliers recommend, the narrow point nearest the main blank is supported by the bulge of the jaws and the widest point furthest away from the blank is supported by the base of the jaws.

Tony: Now you've learnt about the dovetail spigot I hope to see you holding a 12" long blank in the same jaws and making beautiful goblets by the dozen. (My invoice is in the post by the way)

Regards....MIke

 

[Cutting Crew]

Tony,

The rough length for a finished goblet should be in the region of 8" tall.

Take a look at the photograph below, this goblet was made in three parts, the bowl and the foot are in mountain ash and the stem in ebony. The bowl is 2mm thick.

The stem is joined to the bowl and foot by tenons.

Regards....Mike

 

[DaveL]

Mike,

That is a wonderful piece of work. 8) Thank you for posting pictures like that I love to see what the other members are making.

 

[Taffy Turner]

Mike,

PLEASE stop posting pictures of your work - you are making me depressed, plus increasing me feelings of inadequacy!!!

Seriously - that is a fantastic goblet. Stunning design and faultless execution as always.

Gary

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Mike

Your goblet is absolutely stunning. Another masterpiece.

Cheers
Neil