Floor standing morticer

[Streepips]

I am upgrading my Multico PM12 for something a bit beefier.
Nothing wrong with the PM12 but its too easy to stall in hardwood unless you take it really steady, and its alsp been standing in as a drill press but now have a Record RPD58 so can concentrate on getting a bigger capacity morticer.
Best to point out at this stage that I doubt it will be a Startrite, Sedgwick, bigger Multico etc etc do not see the need to spend 3 x times over what I need to ( and yes I do know the arguments, I served an apprenticeship using a Wadkin Bursgreen, a Wilson and also Sedgwick morticer so I know how good they are etc etc)
So the choice is the obvious contenders.........I like Fox kit, bought a 10" sliding table saw, an SCMS, happy with them and have heard good reports of their other heavier machines.....Also like Scheppach, have an HMS260 PT, a 2500 table saw, HM26 extractor etc etc so know their kit quality.
Axminster kit gets varied reviews with warnings about their own "white" goods....... SIP I have always thought of as poor clones, probably better now but used to be awful.
Charnwood I have never seen in the flesh but the machines "read" OK in reviews, Jet I have no experience of but it appears expensive across the range next to equivalent kit, and finally Draper which is not held in high esteem with a lot of product in the low end budget range.

So had a good ( online ) look at all the floor standing morticer offerings from all the above and with the exception of the JET it quickly became obvious that ALL these manufacturers had a model based on the same clone ! With the exception of minor detail these are all identical apart from workpiece cramps, handles, base cabinets, Bristol levers etc. but in essence minor variations of the same machine.
So its down to most attractive specifications and price..
Fox gets dismissed because it will only take 3/4 shank chisels and thats too limiting and all the others have 3/4" (19mm) 13/16" and 1.3/16" capabilities
Axminster stick on a hefty delivery charge.
SIP crank the price up by a good margin for the same thing
Charnwood are comparatively expensive as well so it does not make sense to buy that one
So I can get the same machine in various guises, and out of them all to my surprise I think I am going to opt for the Draper offering, which I can buy without the cabinet which I do not need anyway, but with the top spec, 16mm chuck, 3 chisel size bushings and a free but no doubt low spec 5/8" chisel and bit, inc VAT and delivered for under £300:00 wheras some dealers are asking over £500:00 although including the cabinet.
I hope I am not missing something here! Still not easy about buying Draper but logic dictates its the sensible option....
Your thoughts welcome.

Chris

 

[JonnyD]

Hi I bought a charnwood mortiser similar to the ones you are looking at about 6 years ago. About a year ago the casting broke off where the material clamp is, and the casting shattered around the chisel clamp. The machine is still usuable but you need to clamp the timber on using g clamps. It was used in a trade situation but not heavily used. As a result i bought a used Multico M floor standing mortiser for £175 and is a loads better machine. So my advise would be to look out for a secondhand Multico or Sedgwick which you should be able to pick up for not much more than the cost of the Draper.

Jon

 

[Gary M]

Jet do a floor standing morticer for around £300
Not sure if its a one off special offer as Axminster seem to have stopped doing it.
Try this link, not much info though :?
Its all i can find.
The two year Jet warranty is very good :wink:
Plenty of secondhand industrial morticers on the Bay, if your patient enough to wait on a good one.
Cheers,
Gary.

 

[Streepips]

Thanks for the replies....Noticably sparse, but those received are appreciated.Thanks you two.
Regards the Multico. As I stated, I am aware of the qualities of the Multico brand, I already own a multico, quality is OK but its not large enough capacity, the ones on Ebay are either silly money or collect in person from outer mongolia or are bought by a dealer network and up for resale just as bought the next day witha 100% markup. Same for Sedgwick and Startrite etc etc. That is why, in my post I said I was not interested in chasing that particular dream.... if I want a Sedgwick, Multico wtc I will wait and buy one new. but for the time being one of these clone machines doing the rounds in various guises will do.
By the way the Jet is also one of these clones in various guises as well. I mistakenly thought they had manufactured their own model, seems not so.
The model referred to in the first post ( 1" floorstanding morticer etc etc ) is manufactured in fact by the " Burt Group Manufacturing Co, China" and merely rebadged and finished with different livery and fittings for each dealer..
I ended up buying the draper version, ( why pay more for a different name on it ? ) and its a very solid piece of kit..
Total cost inc VAT next day delivery of £285:00 I could have paid £700 plus, for the same thing with a different badge..
Swapped over a couple of dubious locking clamps for decent Bristol levers, and degreased the lot, reset the jib strip adjustments relubed with graphite, and after a light emerying the table and rise and fall actions are easy and precise. The cast smooth faced clamp plate is U/S as it is, no grip, so contact adhesive d some 80 grit production paper on to it. Excellent grip now,
First job I gave it was some 1.2" work in a big lump of old and very hard , knotty oak, and performed well.
So whatever this is a clone of, it makes a decent job of it, as indeed most chinese kit at the higher end does..........
Thats not to say that there is no rubbish coming out of China nowadays, still people on here and the "other place" seriously asking for a professional opinion on £25:00 routers and £35:00 tablesaws.........What can you say? Do you let them buy and try and learn? or recommend a half decent machine for three times the price, but which you wouldn't buy anyway?
My machines earn my living, so I have to research every aspect of ownership and in some cases the name or brand becomes meaningless, a good example of this is Dewalt....( or should that be Default?) The only Dewalt kit I would consider is the Radial Arm Saw.. but even that no longer has the prominence it had in the workshop, its position no longer as valid or tenable since the more recent and capable sliding compound mitre saw.....as for the DW drill drivers etc, they are substandard now, and overpriced. fashion item.
Every brand has its high points and low points, and its only experience and informed knowledge that can determine what these are, Bosch is another example, I bought a belt sander of theirs that was appalling in terms of quality and design, enough to put me off the brand for life, yet I also bought a Bosch SDS drill that is exactly what an sds drill should be and more... From the pits to the epitome in the same brand range.
All in all its a learning curve, and its an expensive one, no two ways about it, you can either buy as the label and product is marketed to you,right from B&Q nasties through to Felder/Festool. or do the research and ignore the brand name and buy on strength of the specs and reviews.

The only sure way to get competent kit is to buy over specification, so the machine is easily capable of what you ask from it and more, and where a badge or brand or maker used to be a guide to quality, thats no longer the case, you have to find the exceptional products in each range, but not at the expense of regarding one good product as indicative of any one manufacturers overall offerings as equal to their best. Thats the folly of fpllowing the badge......
Now to find out who makes decent chisels and augers for the morticer...........

 

[chris73]

Hi, I'd just take my time and wait for the sedgwick.I bought one only a couple of years old for£250.Probably a fluke but worth waiting for!.I know u say u dont want to wait but you will always know where you spent the extra cash.

 

[JonnyD]

Hi I am glad you are happy with your purchase. I actually normally buy Draper mortise chisels (the cheaper range ) and have found them to last and perform well. I dont see the need to spend 3 times the price if the cheaper ones do the job.

I am also a believer in buying over specification. In 7 years of being self employed i have only bought the best i could afford or justify and made sure that they could do the job. I have only had to replace a couple of tools . I have a mixture of festool mafell Bosch lamello metabo and even dewalt each bought on there own merits and there ability to get the job done and hopefully last for years.

Jon