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Flatting contrary grain, is this best practice

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stuckinthemud

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I have to cut what is in effect a rebate an inch wide, 14 inches long and a quarter inch deep. This is not something I do , in fact it is something I try to avoid. The length contains 3 pin knots and as a result the grain is very squirrely and I have roughed down using gouges of progressively shallower grade being forced to work cross grain. Eventually I will be finishing with firmer chisel and scraper. Just need some reasurance this is a good approach
 

Jacob

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I have to cut what is in effect a rebate an inch wide, 14 inches long and a quarter inch deep. This is not something I do , in fact it is something I try to avoid. The length contains 3 pin knots and as a result the grain is very squirrely and I have roughed down using gouges of progressively shallower grade being forced to work cross grain. Eventually I will be finishing with firmer chisel and scraper. Just need some reasurance this is a good approach
Chisel sounds like hard work! Is it stopped at the ends like a hinge pocket, or straight through?
 

stuckinthemud

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My description was terrible, please be nice, this picture shows a lot of bad practice, but hopefully it shows my gouge isnt blunt. I'm raising an island/lowering the background, the ends are not stopped but although the ledge will be flat, it also moves through a shallow curve
20210125_211607.jpg
 

Jacob

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My description was terrible, please be nice, this picture shows a lot of bad practice, but hopefully it shows my gouge isnt blunt. I'm raising an island/lowering the background, the ends are not stopped but although the ledge will be flat, it also moves through a shallow curveView attachment 101811
Right!
I'd look at marking the lines very well with a marking gauge - a cutting gauge if you have one. Then deepen the 1/4" side cut (middle of photo) with vertical chisel cuts and taking out a wedge to make a v groove the full length and 1/4 deep. Then divide up the waste with v grooves chiselled across to leave little islands like a bar of chocolate. Then take each of them out from the other side (bottom of photo). Then tidy up with shallow gouges etc.
An ordinary wooden marking gauge will go round a curve OK. You could even shape the face to fit a curve if necessary.
PS with a gauge you are deeply defining the lines which you then cut to - a very basic hand tool woodwork practice.
 
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stuckinthemud

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Yup, I've very much been feeling my way into this one, been really fluffy with my marking, playing with proportions and so on, getting closer now though so its time to tighten things up. Using v-cuts like that is a new technique to me, will give it a go
 

Jacob

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Yup, I've very much been feeling my way into this one, been really fluffy with my marking, playing with proportions and so on, getting closer now though so its time to tighten things up. Hadn't thought of dividing with the v-tool, had only been parting the high and low ground. Sounds like a good shout.
I'd do the v groove with a straight chisel from each side. V tool is another thing altogether.
What are you making?
 

stuckinthemud

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Oops, thought about your comment some then edited my answer! Making a 22 string wire strung harp in the medieval style, sort of a mini version of this but the pillar will be much straighter
Screenshot_20210121-202444_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 

pe2dave

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Slow, but safe? Knife walls, chisel out the edges then hand router. Works well for such as this,
especially if the project is worthwhile.
 

stuckinthemud

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Thanks all, your comments are much appreciated. Routers are not really something I use very often, is there a risk of tear-out when going over the top of those little knots? In my hands power tools are often a good way to ruin the work really quickly...
 

pe2dave

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Thanks all, your comments are much appreciated. Routers are not really something I use very often, is there a risk of tear-out when going over the top of those little knots? In my hands power tools are often a good way to ruin the work really quickly...
If the router is fully controlled, knots will not be a problem, but as you say, one slip and the piece may be ruined. A hand router does not have this problem.
 

TheTiddles

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You’re absolutely right, power tools allow one to make a mess much faster than by hand. But they also cut wonky grain very cleanly if you get it right

Aidan
 

stuckinthemud

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Every day is a school day. Never seen one of those before. Wonderful watching such a skilful craftsman at work, though watching him hammer at a chisel with his palm made me wince. Not suitable for this job, but for the tenons I have to cut later it'd be pretty handy. Thanks for the link
 

Ttrees

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Just for some more options..
A carriage makers plane looks like the tool for the job, Stanley/Record #10 or #010 were reasonably priced the last time I looked on the bay... ouch they are getting pricey now!
You'd probably get one at auction reasonably priced it seems, or scroll through all listings to see if one was not identified as a rebate plane.

They have a double iron just like a regular Bailey.

Or decide on either making a jig for a router, or make your own plane from a broken Bailey :)

Tom
 

stuckinthemud

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You're ok, I've always cut tenons with hand saw and chisel, completely comfortable with all that. Snug fitting mortices are a bit of a chore but I only need to cut 3 so not too bad really.
 

stuckinthemud

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Ok, so ignore my rough out lines and shaded high spots, the pillar will have tenons cut in each end, is a truncated wedge cross section with the widest edge on the outside curve, the "island" is a two headed fish with celtic knotwork.
20210128_180343.jpg
 
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