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Fixing tear out

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Noho12C

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Hello,
Currently building a coffee table, with a lovely rippled sycamore for the top. However, there is a patch with some big tear out cause by the planner.

So you have any advise on how to fix that ? I just ordered a hard wax kit, but before making it worse, maybe someone has some other method.

It's fairly deep (maybe 2 mm), long (2 cm) and at several spots. I don't want to cut out this area as the top would get very small, not removing more thickness as it's getting thin now (18 mm).

Thanks,
Chris
(Pictured don't show very well..)

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Droogs

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If its really bad, you could inlay a well oriented piece that would blend in very well. If you don't have any left over material or need a bit of rippled veneer to use, let me know and happy to send down a bit of veneer to you
 

ED65

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Dutchman?

If you don't fancy that dribble in some straight epoxy, it'll do a lot to minimise the visibility once finish goes on. Plane flush only after it's good and hard, then sand with the rest of the surface.
 

bp122

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Offering my inexperienced two cents here - Alternatively, depending on what kind of look you are going for you could consider one of the following options:

1. Route out a 3mm deep recess (well) in that spot for a frequently used item on the table - say a TV remote / an electronic tablet / a vase / a pot or some books etc.

2. Inlay a contrasting wood (walnut / sapele) or a stained wood to make it a feature.

3. Use an array of randomly spaced holes or slots (10mm to 18mm) around the area to add a bit of detail - like a constellation or something.

None of these would work if it is the classic undisturbed look you are going for, I guess.
 

woodbloke66

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ED65":41iqnl7z said:
Dutchman?
That's what I'd go for as well. If it's done with care, you'd hardly notice the dutchman(s) on a timber like sycamore - Rob
 

Noho12C

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Thanks all for your messages.

I still have some parts usable (thanks Droogs for the offer, much appreciated) but not sure I would be able to do more good than harm... But maybe I could have a look and try some bits that look similar. Just worried the patching will be more visible.

The other side of the board isn't as good looking , and there are also patches of year out.

What is "Dutchman" ?

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Argus

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Noho12C":34vcg3dj said:
What is "Dutchman" ?

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It's an inlaid patch, usually made to look like a decorative feature.
 

samhay

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Noho12C":3nkhkcm5 said:
Thanks all for your messages.
I still have some parts usable (thanks Droogs for the offer, much appreciated) but not sure I would be able to do more good than harm... But maybe I could have a look and try some bits that look similar. Just worried the patching will be more visible.
If you can't make it (near) invisible, make it a feature.

>It's an inlaid patch, usually made to look like a decorative feature.

I was under the impression that a 'dutchman' doesn't imply decorative, but rather a patch made of the same/similar material.
Looks like we're in agreement though. Don't try to hide it.
 

Trevanion

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I'd go for ED65's suggestion, with clear epoxy on sycamore once a finish goes on it will be near invisible.
 

marcros

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Trevanion":1afrtqyp said:
I'd go for ED65's suggestion, with clear epoxy on sycamore once a finish goes on it will be near invisible.
I am less sure. I had turned a piece of rippled sycamore with a worm hole in. I filled it with polyester resin, because it was all I had and I had no other option such as remove it. it really stood out in the finished item. tear out may not be as obvious because it is shallower, but test on scrap first.
 

Ttrees

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What about making an apron with the same.timber and laminating.some other.timbers.to.make.up.your.thickness ?
 

Trainee neophyte

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Everyone makes their butterflies look like bowties, but I have seen one that looks like an actual butterfly (almost).


If you are going to be inlaying something, does it have to be wood? Brass might be an option. Disguise as the poshest makers mark? Sign your name? A giraffe and a polar bear having a picnic? Anything is possible...too many options!
 

ED65

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Noho12C":fa2yrbq7 said:
The other side of the board isn't as good looking , and there are also patches of year out.
Ideal place to test out filling with epoxy if you want to try it.

Just 5-min epoxy can do it but the bigger the area the more you'll appreciate a longer working time since you want to warm the wood surface well before the epoxy goes on. Plus you might want to shoot the puddle of epoxy with the hair dryer (close) or heat gun (further back) after it's on in order to help release any air bubbles, which can almost immediately set fast-set epoxy.

Noho12C":fa2yrbq7 said:
What is "Dutchman" ?
A Dutchman is an inlaid wooden patch used to cover an undesirable feature in the surface. They were often (usually?) honest patches that didn't try to hide that patching had been done. But with care in selecting for grain and colour, and getting a very nice fit, they can be quite good at not standing out.

I want to mention that although they where often the same shape as a modern bowtie these are two distinct things and shouldn't be muddled together the way keys/feathers and splines have been in modern usage.
 

ED65

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marcros":z849rxdr said:
I am less sure. I had turned a piece of rippled sycamore with a worm hole in. I filled it with polyester resin, because it was all I had and I had no other option such as remove it. it really stood out in the finished item. tear out may not be as obvious because it is shallower, but test on scrap first.
Yes depth matters. Actual holes filled with clear resin tend to look dark, even black, because of the shadow.

Shallow depressions sort of vanish from the right viewpoint and even at the angles where you do spot them they're not too in-yer-face. On small bits of tearout I've had them be hard to find even knowing where to look.
 

Noho12C

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I bought some hard wax repair kit. I'll give it a try on the back face, and if not happy might try epoxy. I will try to get take some pics and show how the fix goes on..

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profchris

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From bitter experience, the hard edges of tearout do seem to stand out under finish.

One possible answer is to use a cabinet scraper to scrape down to the bottom of the tearout, leaving a dip in the surface which feathers out smoothly to the flat surface either side. Then you could fill the dip with epoxy, level, and finish over the top.

However, don't just do this blindly - find a piece of scrap, scrape a dip in it, fill and finish. It might work, or it might look awful!
 

Sgian Dubh

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No-one has mentioned simply making the top thinner, say 16 mm. How much difference is there really if a table top is 16 mm rather than 18 mm thick regarding its functionality and appearance?

The technique could be sharp, finely tuned hand plane(s) and scrapers, with the plane(s) perhaps used diagonally or sometimes perpendicularly across the grain working only on the show face, plus some scraping, and sanding: the back face doesn't really need to be perfect. If the necessary skills or tools (planes, etc) aren't available, then a skillfully applied belt sander and a 40 or 60 grit belt will knock a couple of mm off evenly pretty quickly, followed up with finer belts and perhaps a random orbital sander to finish off. Lastly, Noho might know someone with a wide belt sander that could do the initial donkey work just leaving the final sanding to do.

None of the filling options so far suggested will hide the tearout in my experience, and I don't really see the point of the dutchman/ butterfly suggestions in a solid top without a split requiring something to prevent the split developing further, although that reluctance to use a dutchman type solution is just my opinion or preference - each to their own on that front I suppose. Slainte.
 

woodbloke66

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Sgian Dubh":b2oe10vb said:
None of the filling options so far suggested will hide the tearout in my experience, and I don't really see the point of the dutchman/ butterfly suggestions in a solid top without a split requiring something to prevent the split developing further, although that reluctance to use a dutchman type solution is just my opinion or preference - each to their own on that front I suppose. Slainte.
I reckon the so called 'Dutchman' is valid Richard, provided it's done with reasonable care and diligence. On my Brown Oak 'puter desk, the veneers went a bit 'thin' at one corner (due mainly to a knackered b/s blade) so I had no option but to insert a patch. Unless you know it's...

IMG_4257.jpg


...there, you'd have to struggle quite hard to spot it. The 'phone sits directly over it so I'm not bovvered :lol: - Rob
 

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