Quantcast
  • We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

First workshop build

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
Hello,
Having read several build threads and gotten some advice from members, I plan to start my build in the next couple of weeks. I'll give a brief spec in this first post, as I know there will be things to modify/improve. Also, there are aspects I really don't know much about ie roof truss dimensions, how best to fit windows etc. I'm hoping experienced members will weigh in and help me out :)

Local planning regs here (France) allow me a structure of 20m2, max height of 3.2m, as long as its 1m from neighbours boundaries and 20m from the road. I've had a 5m x 4m slab laid, 100mm deep, strengthened round the edges with concrete blocks.

For the wall structure, I plan to follow the scheme in Mike Garnhams's post https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/build-a-shed-mike-s-way-t39389.html.

2 courses of brick, with DPC on top (I'm ordering a Brickytool - never layed bricks before...)
sole-plate 45 x 95 (all dims mm, these are the French equivalent of 2 x 4's)
wall framing 45 x 95, 400mm centres (I'm assuming 400 as I will only put ply/OSB on the inside, with cladding over Tyvek on the outside, or can I get away with 600mm centres?)
outer cladding on 45 x 22 battens, leaving ventilation gap
inner skin 12mm OSB or ply
suitable insluation between studs.

There will be a double door in 1 gable wall, and 2 windows along 1 side. I'll put doubled 45 x 95 headers over partial studs for these. If roof trusses don't align with studs, I'll add a 45 x 95 top plate all round. I will also fit a floating floor over insulation boards, as in Dick's build


Now - the roof :( Have I made a major gaffe by deciding on 5 x 4m, rather than something like 6 x 3.3m? I've seen links in several threads to sites which calculate rafter dimensions for a given span/rise etc, but can't find anything similar on trusses. I had intended making up trusses myself, using the glued+screwed plywood gusset approach, but have no idea what dimension of timber I should use, or even the design of the truss. I intend to sheath with 10mm OSB and fit asphalt shingles. One option is simply to give the specs to the local supplier and have them make up the trusses. The saving in time and assurance that they'll be structurally sound may be worth the cost - haven't investigated that yet.

Also, with the 3.2m restriction and a 4m span, I could end up with lowish walls...

say pitch angle of 22.5deg (easy for the mitre saw;)).
rise over 2m = 0.828m
add rafter thickess = 0.120m (guess)
add cladding = 0.01m
total roof height approx 950mm

Leaves a wall height of 2.25m, say 2.2m to allow a small margin. I think thats OK - but is 22.5deg enough for the roof?

I hope thats not too much info for a first post

Regards,
Drew
 

buffalobill

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Location
norway
Hi sounds like you made a good plan look forward to follow this.
Your wall framing is ok with 600 mm center if you put osb on the inside, if you are afraid of lowish walls maybe is better to go for rafters insted of trusses then you get a bit more headspace.
If you want to make the trusses yourself i think it will do with 1.5 x4 for a small building like this if you make them what we call w trusses.
22.5 is ok for the roof but check with the manufacture of the aspalth shingles what they recomend as a minimum pitch for the roof.
Looking forward to see some pic when you get started (hammer)
 

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
buffalobill":3c7jm9h6 said:
Hi sounds like you made a good plan look forward to follow this.

If you want to make the trusses yourself i think it will do with 1.5 x4 for a small building like this if you make them what we call w trusses.
You mean like this?


I've got 4 weeks holiday coming up soon, so won't start until then. But I'll try to post updates (with pics) as I go along. I'll undoubtedly need some help along the way.
 

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
Hello,
Do openings in gable walls need the same arrangement of header and support studs as those in side walls? I'm using roof trusses, so presumably most of the roof weight is transferred to the side walls via the truss chords, with very little on the gable walls. I've drawn up initial plans with all openings treated the same way just to be on the safe side, and it doesn't use that much more wood in my case - just curious.

Drew
 

buffalobill

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Location
norway
no you dont need header and support studs in the gables you dont have any load there
 

Benchwayze

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2007
Messages
9,294
Reaction score
50
Location
West Muddylands
dlowry_uk":vqgjlyld said:
Local planning regs here (France) allow me a structure of 20m2, max height of 3.2m, as long as its 1m from neighbours boundaries and 20m from the road.

Drew
Hi DL,

It seems from the above, that in France you can't have a decent sized shed, if you live on a housing estate, with tiny gardens. That's a bit draconian?

My house is on the corner of two streets and my garden is as close as 4 feet from the road in places. Thus, if my house was in France I couldn't have a shed at all.

Here, (With Building Regs knowledge) I can build a brick-built shop, up to a quarter the area of my whole plot, with the only stipulation that it must be 20 metres from the nearest neighbouring house. As it happens I could comply with that. But it's too late now to go to the expense.

I think there are advantages to living in the West Midlands after all! :)
 

Halo Jones

Established Member
Joined
2 Aug 2010
Messages
530
Reaction score
2
Location
Fife, Scotland
My house is on the corner of two streets and my garden is as close as 4 feet from the road in places. Thus, if my house was in France I couldn't have a shed at all.
If you were in Scotland from a few months ago (they recently changed the law :twisted: ) then you would have needed planning permission (I know I had to apply!) but you see it not being appiled all over the place. I think it might be the same in England. From memory the stipulation was something like if your shed (or "outbuilding") was nearer a road than your property and the road was less than 20m away then planning permission was required.

I had two small sheds in the same place as my new BIG (ie 3x4m) shed and the first thing the planning officer said to me on my initial enquiry when I said I wanted to replace the sheds was " when were these sheds erected?". My automatic response was "more than four years ago"! I still had to give them £150 for planning approval.

H.
 

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
It seems from the above, that in France you can't have a decent sized shed, if you live on a housing estate, with tiny gardens. That's a bit draconian?
Thats the maximum allowed without full planning permission. Also, it depends on the local authority, so regs tend to vary depending on location. Even so, anything over 2sqm has to be declared to the town hall, and the area gets added to my propery tax :evil:

Not surprisingly, with their customary French respect for authority, most people here just build what they want, and as long as its not outrageous, the local authority generally turns a blind eye. In my case, as I eventually want to use it as commercial premises, I kind of have to go by the book from the start...
 

Cegidfa

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2010
Messages
334
Reaction score
0
Location
Mid Wales....just
Hello Drew,

My door openings (from the brick to underside of frame are 1900. Then with the frame and top plate, that's a max of 2m, thus clawing a bit more angle for the roof.
All provided that you aren't more than six feet tall that is :wink: It works for me, and was the only way to stop the roof looking too squat.
I used 150 x 48 for my roof trusses, and don't be afraid to make your own. Glued and screwed, they end up pretty strong, not to mention a lot cheaper. :)
As your build is no wider than mine, and given the type of truss, you may well be able to use smaller timber as suggested by Bill. After all, factory made trusses are made with very lightweight timber. Don't forget to use the floor to assemble them - a very handy space indeed. Not forgetting - use the first (having checked that it fits) as a jig for the rest.
With respect to the tiling, I think from memory that 22.5° is just acceptable for asphalt tiles, but check several different manufacturers' sites first - they do vary.
As to working out the rise and run, sketchup is your friend. If you haven't used it yet, the learning curve is as steep as your roof :D and well worth the effort for this sort of thing.

Good luck..Onwards and err...upwards.

Dick.
PS. You won't regret the cost of the insulated floor, it's very friendly on the feet.
Don't forget to get the high density stuff specifically for floor usage, not wall insulation.
 

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
At long last, things are under way. Here are a few photos of today's efforts.



5m x 4m slab, concrete blocks, DPM and bottom plate fitted. I got professionals in to lay the slab, but am doing the rest myself. These are hollow blocks, so at the corners and every 2nd block along each wall, I partially filled with concrete before laying, to give a fixing base for frame anchors for the bottom plate. I didn't think about having ties embedded in the slab, and I'm unsure whether to bolt ties into the slab now. Also, since the anchors pierce the DPM, I made liberal use of silicone in and around the holes, hoping that will minimize damp problems (I'm new at this game...).



First wall up. I have no help, so each wall will have 2 subframes to keep things manageable.



First day's work, 2 walls up. Not having done this before, I started with the 2 walls with no window or door openings to get into the swing of it.

Thanks for looking,
Drew

Today's lesson - unless you really like the taste of sawdust, take careful note of wind direction before firing up the mitre saw in the garden...
 

buffalobill

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Location
norway
Looking good and nice sized will be a great workshop when finished.
Just a small tip look my drawing it is supposed to be the studs seen from above if you do like this in the corners will save you alot of work later when you start inside.
Looking forward to follow this build keep the fotos coming
 

Attachments

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
buffalobill":1t0jpuki said:
Looking good and nice sized will be a great workshop when finished.
Just a small tip look my drawing it is supposed to be the studs seen from above if you do like this in the corners will save you alot of work later when you start inside.
Looking forward to follow this build keep the fotos coming
Yep, I've already done that for the first corner, although I may have taken the last photo before it was fitted - its not really visible. Thanks for the tip anyhow!

Drew
 

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
Latest photo with wall framing done. Well, I need to cut the bottom plate spanning the door opening, and I may add a few noggins, but basically done.



I need some advice on the next step. I'd planned on moving onto the roof trusses, leaving OSB sheathing etc until I have the roof done. Is there any reason I should sheath the walls and wrap first?

Thanks
Drew
 

plug

Established Member
Joined
9 Mar 2008
Messages
128
Reaction score
0
Location
kent
Put the osb on first it will stenghten the stucture up and stop the wall from moving out of plumb.
Can't see any bracing on walls.
 

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
plug":135lzi16 said:
Put the osb on first it will stenghten the stucture up and stop the wall from moving out of plumb.
Can't see any bracing on walls.
Do you mean temporary diagonal bracing to hold everything plumb? I'll do that before fitting the OSB, plus a brace across the top.

I also need to change the doubled top plate on one of the long sides. I'd run out of good straight timber, so tried using a slightly warped length, but it warps the whole wall from the top, and I can't straighten it. So, I'll have to lap-join 2 or 3 straight offcuts.

Drew
 

dlowry_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2006
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
Le Nord, France
The frame is squared and braced.

It took me all day, partly because it was trickier than I'd anticipated, and partly due to it being 32 deg in the shade here, which may have slowed me down a bit ;)

Here are a couple of photos of my frame-squarer-upper device (patent pending), without which I couldn't have squared the structure on my own.



Screw one end of a batten firmly to the top corner of the frame. Screw a framing offcut to the other end with a single screw so it can pivot, positioned so it locks on the frame towards the bottom. Whack the offcut until the frame is pulled square, or a little beyond to allow for springback, and attach the braces. Worked very well.

Drew
 

Latest posts

Top