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Lons

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Not what you think - my car is actually a diesel :wink:

I was very happy (not) to hand over £70 in the knowledge that I'm not actually paying the highest prices in the world after all, (ONLY 4TH HIGHEST). Ahead of us are Turkey - £1.44, Italy - £1.47 and Norway - £1.50 per litre.
it was also re-assuring to note that at least 10 countries are paying between 1p and 20p (state subsidised)

Oh happy days (hammer)

Bob
 

MIGNAL

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Why? I thought that the tax payer subsidised the average motorist. No?
 

Steve Maskery

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MIGNAL":2gymsddo said:
Why? I thought that the tax payer subsidised the average motorist. No?
In what way? I was under the impression that the amount paid in road fund licences, excise and VAT on petrol greatly exceeds what is spend on roads. Am I mistaken?
S
 

Cheshirechappie

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MIGNAL":2ci2ud9p said:
Why? I thought that the tax payer subsidised the average motorist. No?
No.

The proportion of the price paid at the pumps by a motorist for fuel that goes to the government in tax is 58%; that's fuel duty, and then VAT on top. When you buy petrol and diesel, you are taxed on the tax you pay.
 

Lons

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The whole point of my post really was that I well remember filling up before crossing the channel whereas now all the countries within reach - France, Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Spain, Portugal etc are now cheaper than us.
Fuel is fuel and only transport costs make the cost different - APART FROM THE TAX LEVIED.
 

fetteler

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Well, it has nothing to do with anyone related to me returning from China but I have to agree 100 percent with Mailee's observation!

Cheers,
Steve.

Edit:
Having just read my own post, I think in the interests of fairness and all round honesty, I'd have to say that the same sentiment applies to the current opposition too - and to virtually all the rest of the folk in parliament :cry: :cry: :cry:
 

Jacob

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It's too cheap by far. We are living in cloud cuckoo land with climate change well on the way - to which the only solution is to stop using fossil fuels altogether, though it is probably too late.
Boring though!
NB in real terms compared to the cost of other stuff running a vehicle is historically very cheap.
 

MIGNAL

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Steve Maskery":1n6tklpc said:
MIGNAL":1n6tklpc said:
Why? I thought that the tax payer subsidised the average motorist. No?
In what way? I was under the impression that the amount paid in road fund licences, excise and VAT on petrol greatly exceeds what is spend on roads. Am I mistaken?
S
You are correct, until you factor in the indirect or hidden costs - things like Policing, cost of accidents etc. Then it's not so clear cut but difficult to calculate the true cost.
 

Peter T

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The last time I saw any figures they showed that only about 10% of the revenue raised from motorists was spent on the road network.
 

Sheffield Tony

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Jacob":1g1e7r5p said:
It's too cheap by far. We are living in cloud cuckoo land with climate change well on the way - to which the only solution is to stop using fossil fuels altogether, though it is probably too late.
I'm going to agree with Jacob. Energy is grossly undervalued. We are currently satisfying our unsustainable demand by consuming the stored reserves of the past (fossil fuels) whilst borrowing from the future (in the form of deferred costs of nuclear decomissioning and long term waste storage). If you disagree, try making a piece of furniture, by human energy only, starting with a tree. Chainsaw fuel and electricity start to look good value quite quickly.
 

AndyT

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A question for any industrial chemists who know more about processing crude oil than I can remember from O-level chemistry a long time ago:

We pump crude oil out of the ground, and there is a finite supply of it. Some we refine to make fuel, which we burn. (The cheaper it is, the more casually we burn it.)
Some of it we make into stuff. Pretty much all of the world's plastic is derived from crude oil, isn't it?

So as oil becomes harder to get, we will have to start to do without plastics, won't we? No plastics = no insulators = no electronics! Potentially a far more disruptive change than making transport expensive.

But is there a fixed mix of products that can be refined, or can we (through the market) choose to vary the proportion of crude that gets made into plastic / the proportion that gets burnt as fuel?

If we can vary the proportions, doesn't it make sense to save as much precious oil as we can to make plastic out of (where there is no substitute) and only burn it as fuel where there is no alternative source of energy?
 

mseries

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Steve Maskery":1wi1kp9l said:
MIGNAL":1wi1kp9l said:
Why? I thought that the tax payer subsidised the average motorist. No?
In what way? I was under the impression that the amount paid in road fund licences, excise and VAT on petrol greatly exceeds what is spend on roads. Am I mistaken?
S
Maybe more is levied from motorists than is spent on roads but the spenditure on the roads doesn't come just from motorists. VED goes into the central pool of money along with tax from other sources such as income tax, fuel tax which is paid generally by motorists and non motorists alike. This money is used for lots of things, roads it just one. We all pay for the roads, not just the people who drive on them. Perhaps subsidised isn't the right word.
 

Jacob

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AndyT":2eb1svof said:
....
So as oil becomes harder to get, we will have to start to do without plastics, won't we? No plastics = no insulators = no electronics! Potentially a far more disruptive change than making transport expensive.....
Only 2 or 3 hundred years ago and the world used virtually zero fossil fuel. Which doesn't mean we have to turn the clock back - more interesting to contemplate how we would take forward the technology we have, into a fossil fuel free future (or FFFF for short!).
 

mseries

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AndyT":1cquikgk said:
So as oil becomes harder to get, we will have to start to do without plastics, won't we? No plastics = no insulators = no electronics! Potentially a far more disruptive change than making transport expensive.
I think we'll get even better at recycling plastic and other things so we'll not do without it. In addition we will almost certainly create substitutes for plastic if we have to - IMO
 

Sheffield Tony

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We may also need to scratch our heads over what to do with the ~1/3 of the worlds population that are sustained by food grown using nitrate fertiliser made using natural gas.
 

whiskywill

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Jacob":194x23lg said:
Only 2 or 3 hundred years ago and the world used virtually zero fossil fuel.
What did they use? Wood? Burn all the trees and increase atmospheric CO2 levels. No wood, no woodwork, no UK Workshop forum. No Jacob.

Carry on using fossil fuels.
 

RogerS

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whiskywill":31ju4iri said:
Jacob":31ju4iri said:
Only 2 or 3 hundred years ago and the world used virtually zero fossil fuel.
What did they use? Wood? Burn all the trees and increase atmospheric CO2 levels. No wood, no woodwork, no UK Workshop forum. No Jacob.

Carry on using fossil fuels.
Wot? Jacob's an old fossil?
 
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