Fastcap magnetic micro square 45 degree or another square for tool setup

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pe2dave

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Actually I do not care too much about the magnets, it most likely would be nice but it's not what I am after fundamentally. I need a reliable small square that's got 90 and 45 degrees to set up fences and blades.
You might look at an engineering supplier? Moore and wright in the UK do quite accurate kit.
 

Siggy

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Well, if your looking for better than 0.37mm total deviation (0.2 degrees) in 150mm or 6” firstly the table saw isn’t the right tool to be cutting to such accuracy. To set to a higher level of accuracy you need a sine table and engineers gauge blocks, probably an 81 set probably grade B but grade A would be better depending in you level of accuracy required.

I would also think about an alternative material to wood, it simply wont hold 0.37mm accuracy, as soon as you have cut it, it will have moved by at least that (150mm thick)

It's not about wood moving or not moving. I need a reference for setting tools up, if I have a tool I can rely on and know that it's exactly what it is, I'm gonna be fine. As I've said in couple of messages, the digital thing does not work me.
 

Siggy

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Ok, granite surface table, grade 0, sine table and engineers gauge blocks. For 90 degrees there are vertical standards. Everything else is simply nearly accurate. A temperature and humidity controlled room would also be very helpful. Now, I’m sure you think I’m being ironic or sarcastic, but I’m not. If you after 10 micron or better accuracy over 150mm you need to dig deep into your pockets and accept that a square, or anything else simply isn’t going to make the grade, anything aluminium is worse than useless. It needs to be hardened, ground and looked after with it never being bumped, dropped or knocked.
Once assembled, calibrated back to national standards to a level about 10 times better than what you want to measure you need to carry out initially a type 1 and then a type 2 R&R study.
If It’s for metalwork, then most company’s never mind hobby shops don’t work to this level of precision. If it’s woodwork, your wasting your time, wood work machine are not built to this level of prevision.

I do not think you are being ironic or sarcastic, however:
Do I really need to justify buying something that I think is going to be useful for me, and having an opinion, that differs from other people on something I find unsatisfactory? I just need a square that does 45 and 90 degrees that I could use a reference for the blades and fences, that would be on the small side, like what some shops describe as a pocket square.
 

Inspector

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I use my combination set. If the blade of the square won't fit between the teeth then I take the head off and use it alone. The one thing about those tiny squares is that on some saws they have a large throat plate and the little square can't bridge the gap between the table and blade. Your saw might be different than mine. I still prefer my Starrett combination set though which may come down to how you learned to work.

Deema I have a small tool room granite surface plate and a cylinder square but it is a little hard to use on the table saw. 😉

Pete
 
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Siggy

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I use my combination set. If the blade of the square won't fit between the teeth then I take the head off and us it alone. The one thing about those tiny squares is that on some saws they have a large throat plate and the little square can't bridge the gap between the table and blade. Your saw might be different than mine. I still prefer my Starrett combination set though which may come down to how you learned to work.

Deema I have a small tool room granite surface plate and a cylinder square but it is a little hard to use on the table saw. 😉

Pete

This is helpful, thank you. How did I not think of that.
 

Rich C

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For setting up things like shooting boards I use my combination square also, it is definitely good for 45 and 90 degrees to better accuracy than I need for wood.
 

Spectric

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I would also think about an alternative material to wood, it simply wont hold 0.37mm accuracy, as soon as you have cut it, it will have moved by at least that (150mm thick)
That is a very good point, you can only be as accurate as the material you are working with will allow, wood is unstable compared to steel and most man made materials. On that basis a decent square will deliver what you want, the other issue with a lot of digital readouts is they have an update rate that is too fast and so the display keeps changing, perhaps someone will come up with a level box with some preset update rates.
 

Siggy

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That’s fine, but you felt that 0.2 degrees was too large a deviation

Well, why are you telling me how I felt? it's 0.2 degrees in either direction, I have stated in multiple posts that it's inconsistent and it's not what I want. Now if you've read my last post in answer to you it clearly states:

"I just need a square that does 45 and 90 degrees that I could use a reference for the blades and fences, that would be on the small side, like what some shops describe as a pocket square."

It's great to have knowledge, such as you have demonstrated in multiple posts now, even tho you say you use it for a hobby reasons. It's completely another matter of trying to try to prove a point no one asked you to prove.

Edit for clarity, no disrespect meant.
 
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TRITON

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That’s fine, but you felt that 0.2 degrees was too large a deviation, since absolutely nothing is either 90 or 45, you first need to decide what level of error you can accept
I'd agree with that. And to be honest on for example a saw isnt ever going to be as accurate to the umpteenth degree. Certainly not placing a square on the table and against the blade, closing one eye and squinting to see if theres any light shining thorough might be an approximate, but the second you switch it on its all going to go to hell, as ive yet to find a saw that didnt wobble ever so slightly.

Saws for example are rough cut machines. You take the offsaw to the planer, or hand plane and be working to a thin pencil line. But in woodworking, you're maybe able to get something to 1/3 of a millimeter and thats about as accurate as you'll ever need. -But this is post saw. You'd rarely be using the saw to produce a finished piece. It's just there to roughly hack it to approximate size.
 

Siggy

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Clearly a sensitive sole, where the normal use of English causes immediate offence. May I suggest that since you unable to enter into any discourse without your feelings becoming hurt, I’m the second person you’ve pushed back on in this thread that you seriously reconsider exposing yourself to any form of feedback by not participating in any avenue of interaction with other individuals that don’t hold your hyper level of sensitivity.

Well, this made me laugh. It's not the language, it's what's being said. The great thing about internet is that you get exposed to all sorts of individuals and opinions. Language can be fairly ambiguous and whilst I have acknowledged that this might offend you somewhat, it's not what I intended. If I have offended you - I am sorry.
Simply wanted to point out, that if you read what I've asked for, you would have not written what you have. Unless of course, you wanted to show your knowledge, in which case, you have.

As for you assuming about where my place is and isn't, please don't. You have just described me as hyper sensitive. I simply did not find your post helpful, why go offensive and talk about me, instead of just listening to what I am saying and addressing the fact, that I did not ask for it?
 

Spectric

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Having spent a fair amount of time working in metrology I can appreciate Deema's comments, no measured value is absolute and is why we have tolerances which can be specified at a certain temperature, even your steel rule will change length with a change in temperature although it will not be perceived by the naked eye. As for saw blades, I dare say some will have a wobble or resonance that could introduce an error of 0.2 degrees. I think we need to accept that woodworking is not precision engineering and all shake hands and be nice to each other, we can all learn something every day and keep the site freindly.
 

Siggy

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Having spent a fair amount of time working in metrology I can appreciate Deema's comments, no measured value is absolute and is why we have tolerances which can be specified at a certain temperature, even your steel rule will change length with a change in temperature although it will not be perceived by the naked eye. As for saw blades, I dare say some will have a wobble or resonance that could introduce an error of 0.2 degrees. I think we need to accept that woodworking is not precision engineering and all shake hands and be nice to each other, we can all learn something every day and keep the site freindly.

Agreed.
 

TRITON

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Aye no problems. I've had a fair old shouting match with (Tiddles was it ? I forget now) over how my £200 dust mask meant i didnt care about my lungs and should have bought a £700 dust mask. :LOL: that was a doozy.
 

Bojam

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For my datum gauge, which i use on my mitre trimmer, I use a Japanese mitre square. I went Japanese as they're so accurate in everything they do, that a gauge from Japan is likely to be spot on.

I use the same Shinwa mitre square for machine setup (fences on surface planer, bandsaw, etc.) and other things. It’s an excellent tool.
 
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