FAO all Woodrat Owners

[aldel]

Mike

I have both and would not be without them. Like cameras all these machines have their advantages and disadvantages. A single purpose, dedicated machine will generally be better than a multi purpose one at a set job.
Check that you have enough wall space to mount a WoodRat allowing for tracking the carriage either way.
Why not post on the Wanted/for sale section of the WoodRat forum?

Aldel

 

[ike]

IMHO, I think in addition to quality manufacturing, also the more specific the function of a tool is, generally the better it will perform that function. By "better" I also mean for example, not only a tighter, more accurate joint, but maybe speed of setting up or the rate of work etc.

For some, the Rat will meet every expectation, for others it won't and likewise, for the Leigh - or for this tool, or for that tool, for lots of tools - it comes back to the same personal equation. The worth of a tool can really only be judged according to the preferred criteria of the potential buyer or the present owner, be that for commercial production or home crafting. I reckon anything I buy, at best maybe half that buying decision is an attempt at objective, logical analysis (i.e. will it do what it says on the tin, do I need it, and is it cost effective?, and can I get the stamp of approval from SHMBO). The other 50% is simply emotions (retail therapy?, brand loyalty?, belief? whatever....maybe lust?).

Ike

 

[Alf]

<last desperate try> how about if I bought you a set of nice shiny LN chisels for the rat?

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=SC-Set

No? oh well.

Why, James, you do know how to tempt a girl... <flutter eyelashes, swoon etc etc>

But NO! :lol:

<Fade out to the strains of "Woodrats are forever" sung by Shirleigh Basset and the Liquorice Allsorts>

Okay, someone get me my medication... :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Adam]

The reason i ask is, if you read posts on other forums it seems to be the "Them and Us" sort of attitude.

Ahh, I'm one of them you see . It's definately them and us here, me, ALF, frank, and a few others vs Aragorn, Newbie_Neil and Waterhead sits on the fence has he has both! :wink: . Come to think of it, I'm not sure Neil actually owns a Leigh do you? You're just a Leigh fan as and when you get round to purchasing one? I'm mellowing slightly, after seeing the Leigh chap demonstrating at the homewood workshops, it's a nice tool, good engineering (which I always take a shine to) but the setup. Jeepers, I'm finished and in having a cup of tea by the time a Leigh owner would be taking a first cut! (if they were doing a custom spacing anyway).

But they never touch on the question is there really room for them both?
For instance you can do dovetails on the Rat, so could a Rat owner justify buying a Leigh?

I think a Leigh owner could justify buying a 'rat, more than a 'rat owner could justify a Leigh. Funny, I wouldn't think it would be like that, but the Leigh is a "single" purpose tool if you like, and the 'rat is a "multipurpose" tool which overlaps with the Leigh, but does more. Nontheless, I think their is a benefit to it. I love my 'rat for making unusual stepped profiles, unusual joints, and a host of other things I never thought I'd need it to do when I bought it.....

Also if you already own a Leigh, a router table, and a morticing machine, would the fact that the Rat can do a bit more then this be justification enough to buy one?

Now it's getting quite close. You have in three seperate machines, the same capability as a 'rat, for me, with such limited space, I like having a 'rat for space reasons. Certainly some things can be done on the 'rat like safe climb cutting, which for me, makes it worth its weight in gold (which is nearly what it feels like it is made of, when you try picking it up!). Ask Waterhead he has both, better still, search for woodrat in the search facility and see our never-ending threads!

As i said my cousins are always trying to convince me to get one. In fact when i think about it, they are a bit fanatical about their Rats.

I reckon Godfrey/Henry puts a strange dust in the delivery box somehow, which seems to turn all 'rat owners into fanatical preachers trying to convert the world.

Dunno really, the Leigh has a happy fan club, the 'rat has a fanatically enthusiastic fan club. Perhaps that speaks volumes, about how much they like them respectively?

Dunno.

Adam

 

[frank]

mike if your cousins want you to get one why not borrow one off them ,i lent mine to a chap who asked on the woodrat site to see a demo he was doing fitted kitchens when he seen how easy it was to do m/ts plus doing half blind dove tails for the drawers he wanted the full package now thats a lot of dosh , (henry if you read this do i get any freebees for making this sale 8) ) adam am i one of them or one of us :shock:

just a little rat in the world wide pack . :twisted:

 

[Mike.C]

Hi All,

There is one thing about these two jigs that some other manufacturers would do well to take note and that is their manuals. I have only had a quick look at the one that comes with the Rat, but it seems every bit as good as the Leigh.
Why do these manufacturers think that we are all psychic and so except for a picture of the machine, model number, parts list, and the same in 20 other different languages we do not need any more instructions?

Tony, from what has been said looking for a second hand one would be like looking for a needle in a hay stack, except for the one on ebay, but with its reserve price it looks like that will go for near the cost of a new one. But if you do find one let me know and i will buy it. Ha ha.

Neil, you are right i should have done a search.

Aldel, is there a big difference between the big and the little rat?
What would be the ideal size wall space to mount the Rat.

Adam, i see what you mean about fanatical.

Frank, i have thought about borrowing one off them before, but they live in Wexford (Southern Ireland) and i live in Northern Scotland (Aberdeenshire). I only go over once or twice a year and i am sure that they couldn't do without it for so long.

When you say he wanted the full package what does this consist of and how much does it cost.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Regards

Mike.C

Edit Sorry Tony i messed up, i thought that the Woodrat was £350 but it now appears that i was looking at the price of the Little Rat, and so the Ebay auction may not be all that bad.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Adam

I'm not sure Neil actually owns a Leigh do you?

Err, yes. :lol:


Hi Mike

The Leigh is the best jig in the world, bar none, for producing variably spaced dovetails.

The 'rat is obviously very good at a wide range of joints. I have looked at the 'rat twice and on both occasions I was put off by the wonderful demonstration, not. The guy who invented the 'rat hasn't got a clue about how to demonstrate it.

You really need to see one in use and then make your decision.

I really like the legacy mill which, I feel, is a bit like a 'rat on steroids. It has an x/y axis and is also pretty nifty at turning as well.

Sorry, I've probably made it worse now.

Cheers
Neil

 

[frank]

mike it was the big rat +plung bar +alu rails +all the 1/2 inch router bits ie the sets and any other bits price wise loads a money ,if alf works it all out i think she might have to sit down for a while. did i say he makes fitted kitchens the one he is making at the mo is american white oak the cost £18 k :? i think i will go and lay down for a while :wink:

 

[Aragorn]

It's definately them and us here, me, ALF, frank, and a few others vs Aragorn, Newbie_Neil and Waterhead sits on the fence has he has both!Adam

Hey - leave me out of it! :wink:
Ah, Rat vs Leigh.... "banging, brick, head, wall" spring to mind.
:roll:




:roll:













:roll:

 

[Alf]

Ah, Rat vs Leigh.... "banging, brick, head, wall" spring to mind.

Nonsense. As soon as the pro-Leigh camp finally see the error of their ways, dump the "jig" and apologise profusely for ever daring to assume their paltry piece of tat is even in the same league as the Glorious 'Rat routing machine, everything will be hunky dory... :wink:

Nope, you were right the first time...

Cheers, Alf :lol:

 

[Aragorn]

LOL!
What a find that smilie is! You must have a secret stash somewhere.

Well - if it helps put an end to the comparison of completely different woodworking aids, then <sigh> y e s, the Leigh is pants; what were we thinking even reading the ad for it in the first place.
Mine's in the bin even as we speak, though I had to wrap it in plastic as the dustbins haven't done anything wrong to be tainted by such filth. </sigh>

There. Hope you're happier now! :wink:

___________________
Cheers!
Aragorn

*Leigh rules*

 

[DaveL]

Mine's in the bin even as we speak, though I had to wrap it in plastic

OK then just where is this bin that I feel a desperate need to empty? :wink:

 

[Adam]

Ah, Rat vs Leigh.... "banging, brick, head, wall" spring to mind.

Nonsense. As soon as the pro-Leigh camp finally see the error of their ways, dump the "jig" and apologise profusely for ever daring to assume their paltry piece of tat is even in the same league as the Glorious 'Rat routing machine, everything will be hunky dory... :wink:
Cheers, Alf :lol:

And after building such a strong reputation for honesty, integrity and accurate reviews in her LV series, it's nice to see ALF writing another comprehensive, accurate and concise review of the 'rat vs Leigh arguments.

Spot on Alf!

Adam

 

[aldel]

Hello folks, Aldel here.

I have been reading with interest some of the comments regarding Leigh Jigs/WoodRat etc .
From a hobby woodworkers point of view, lets face it, none of them are required. It can all be done by hand. Beautiful antique furniture was all made by hand. To plane a piece of wood a lowly wooden plane will do. You do not need a L.N. In any hobby, a very large part of the pleasure comes from just owning and using a quality piece of kit. That secret and unadmitted feeling of one upmanship that no one will ever admit to. When purchasing such high end equipment, its done because you want to,(lust after?) and you can just about afford it!! Its your hobby after all and it gives you tremendous pleasure. Justification has no real part in the equation at all. Justification is just psychological appeasement to the guilt and torture of the purchase decision and probably to keep the partner sweet.
If you want it ,can afford it, buy it. Use it, enjoy it, tell people about it.
If it doesn't come up to expectations, sell it and gain experience from it!!

Thanks, rant over OOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhh that feels better now.

If you have time, cross over to the dark side and have a browse through this thread [url]www.walcotmedia.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=108

Regards Aldel

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Aldel

If you have time, cross over to the dark side

Now that has to be the scariest forum I have ever seen in my life. :lol:

Cheers
Neil

 

[Alf]

LOL!
What a find that smilie is! You must have a secret stash somewhere.

'Cos you've now seen the light about that jig, I'll share :wink: : http://mysmilies.com/

You do not need a L.N.

:shock: Well of course you've not been here long... :roll: :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[ike]

If you want it ,can afford it, buy it. Use it, enjoy it, tell people about it.
If it doesn't come up to expectations, sell it and gain experience from it!!

Aldel,

Very succinct analysis- totally agree. I think my Leigh jig has to go.

Ike

 

[Anonymous]

If you want it ,can afford it, buy it. Use it, enjoy it, tell people about it.
If it doesn't come up to expectations, sell it and gain experience from it!!

Aldel,

Very succinct analysis- totally agree. I think my Leigh jig has to go.

Ike

Why? for a woodrat?
Woodrat v Leigh is a nonsense and I cannot understand why people continually compare them

Leigh does great dovetails and cannot be matched for them. It is the best dovetail jig - fast and incedibly accurate. For the same price as the Rat (+ cutter set etc.) you could buy the Leigh D4 and a couple of other templates for finger joints and some fancy joints.

Woodrat does loads of things (swiss army knife?) - even dovetails and is nothing like the Leigh to use. Dovetails on the rat are clearly more difficult and prone to error as part of the process requires marking with a pencil (I have read woodrat manual and loads of posts + seen a demo on this).
However, rat does mortice and tenon as well as finger joints and I would say that it has many uses that the Leigh could not possibly be used for. Flexibility.

They are different machines to accomplish different things

I would quite like a woodrat (not paying £475 though) but would still cut my DTs on the Leigh

 

[ike]

Tony wrote:

Why? for a woodrat?

No, I don't want a Woodrat either. For one, they're too expensive for my liking. I'll stick to using router table and mortiser plus the old fashioned ways.

The Leigh was an impulse buy. I've had it several years and hardly use it. Half-blind dovetails could be satisfactory accomplished for drawers with a cheaper jig, and for feature, thru dovetails with the hand made look - well probably by hand given how often I'll want to make them!.

Still, even though it hasn't earn't it's keep, I'm loath to part with it, cos on the rare occasions I use it, it's a fantastic tool, especially for inlaid dovetails. On the other hand I could put the money toward some better hand tools. SWMBO thinks I'd be daft to get rid of it.

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Tony,

After reading past posts both here and elsewhere i have to agree with you 100%.
The Rat is an ideal jig for someone who has a small workshop and/or has yet to buy their mortiser, dovetail jig etc etc. But for those of us that already have these £475 is a lot of money just to double up on tools/machines you already have to do these joints.

Don't get me wrong if money was no object i would go out and snap one up now, because from what i have read it is a highly accurate jig that with a bit of practise can knock out superb joints time and time again.

As you say to compare it with the Leigh is nonsense. The Leigh will beat it hands down at making all sorts of dovetail joints, but it walks all over the Leigh when it comes to any other joint. Why? because you cannot use the Leigh for any other joint. It is like comparing a table saw and a combination machine, the table saw rips and cross cuts really nice, but is total rubbish as a spindle moulder.

Anyway i am sticking with my Leigh unless i win the lottery.

Regards

Mike.C