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Echo-Star

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Hi all

Well started cleaning the saw down today, and as it turns out, It will need at total strip, refurb and paint.

This is due to scraping off the scale, grime and debris around the saw, It is the original paint "no overcoating" and was coming off fairly easily on the lower half off the body. However due to the cleaning program, I have expose so much bear steel which now requires a full breakdown, and paint.

I shall get the "cast top half and foot supports" shot blasted. I was looking to repaint in the original colour if this is possible, or would this have to be best match ? And following MilesH advice I think I'll avoid the Hammerite

I also ran into a problem this afternoon while dismantling the inners of the saw. firstly there are no damaged/fractured parts in the workings off the machine, worm drive looks to have many, many years life left in them. The Issue that I am having though, Is the removal of the pivoting pin from the rise and fall slide bracket and the main trunnion bracket. I've drew back the two grub screws from the underside, and tried a little persuasion with a 12mm rod and light taps with a peen hammer. The thought of using a heavier hammer send shivers up my back.

Q/ my train of thought was looking at a hub puller, or something along those lines ?

I did put some oil into the grub screw holes and replace, as well as a little around the pin,, hoping that it may permeate around the pin overnight.

Any thoughts/advice from you guys would be much appreciated.

Regards
 

Echo-Star

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Good Evening all

Slide bracket pin/trunnion up date. Tried again this morn to remove the pin, to no avail. Did I mention peen hammer.

Trunnion in the boot and away to see a Smithy friend of mine, who I knew had a hydraulic press. Well a quick lookover and set up, then hand on the lever "Bang" shims go flying from both ends. Oh NO I'm thinking that's the trunnion Kaput, But no the shimming had just gone, and needing replaced, altered and swapped around. Though I could see that the pin had pushed through about 6/8 mill, yes it's going. Try again, and this time the pin just moved slow and continuous until it fell from the bottom. I had time to look at the pressure guage on the 2nd attempt and was showing just shy off 1.3 ton. Wow, and I was at it with a toffee hammer. I never saw what the initial pressure was, though it may well have been as much as 2 ton.

Well chewed the fat, then back to the WS for 10 bells. Spent the next 5hrs cleaning the two penetrations and pin, I can believe how hard/dense this material was to clean off, and could only have been fractions of a mm using 150g emery cloth, and if the pin wasn't hard enough the penetrations we're even harder, especially the main T body with the deeper hole, where my pinkie was no longer any good with the depth.

Anyway, got there in the end. I looked around and found a brass belay pin that I got from a boat I've been working on lately. Four wraps around this pin "spiral fashion" fitted snugly with just that little bit off play, that would allowed me to pass the pin to and fro, rotating at the same time to achieve my goal, yippee job done Now to fit the pieces back together again to see how well it has tuned up. Firstly Now that peen hammer gets involved, just to tap in the last 10mm and set in final position and bite in the two grub screws.
 

Echo-Star

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Good evening all

during disassembly, I was giving all parts a dry brush rub down on the table bed and outer casing, the inners were tackled in a manor where i removed a number of the smaller parts that came from a larger piece and deemed this as a component, wire brushing where needed, while emery cloth was used on 2 or 3 shafts and pins that were also oiled, wiped clean and then reassembled into there component parts. This approach allowed me to familiarise myself and keep track off all the parts as they were remove, with less chance of any parts being misplaced.

I reassembled the trunnion, then fitted the spindle and blade, the reason being I did not check to see if there was any play in the spindle bearings before the dismantle. There was no need to worry there, rook solid. If the bearings need changed anytime in the next decade or so, it would take no more than 10 mins to whip the table off and spindle out, as you can almost blow those nuts round now.

Today I stripped the paint from the lower half off the cabinet, inside and out using a magic scraper. took about an hour either side, then set aside and covered with a dust sheet for now, I will go over with the orbital sander before it gets primed. I then moved onto the blade guard with the magic scraper again, and this took longer to remove as I had to be less aggressive with the scraper, scraping more with the pull stroke, so as not to dig into the aluminium. When done, I did go over the guard with a 120 then 240g and has turned out really well. There's little can be done with the inside, not that it matters.

Tomorrow I will start on the hand wheels, and may be look at getting the pully off the motor. I've also the tables to look over.

Was speaking with the guy who's basting the top cast unit this morn, who said bring it down Friday, So may get some paint on next week.
 

Echo-Star

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Good evening all

Ordered paint today, Wadkin green from AMS. Rather expensive I thought. 2.2l plus 2x400ml spray under coat, plus 1x400ml satin black spray. £102 then postage = £120

I dropped off the upper body part and the foot mounts at the blasters today, hoping to pick up at weekend.

Now looking at getting the motor sorted out.

Can anyone advise on the most appropriate switch gear I should go for. I believe that a dol starter is not good enough on its own, and that I need another unit for protection.

Is there a single unit on the market that will cover both applications, opposed to separate units.

Rob
 

Echo-Star

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Good evening all

Yesterday I dismantled the trunnion and degreased all parts, filed off all casting joint lines while rounding off any sharp and ragged edges, staying clear off all machined faces.

Now the trunnion components are Keyed ready for painting, It's now time for the tedious task of masking up.

Paint arrived today.

A couple pic's of bits masked up, will give them a light tickle with a smaller wire brush on the drill before primer coating is applied.


IMG_0031 (1).JPG IMG_0034 (1).JPG


Ordered these from WDS today, and hopefully get a dolly welded up next week sometime if my mate can fit me in.
I'm so tempted to treat myself to a mig welder for this and future projects, though that will have to wait as I've still the motor to get sorted.

Will look into that tomorrow


1616074482765.png


Due to be delivered Monday


Regard Rob
 

LJM

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I’ll be interested to see what you think of those casters; I was thinking of using those on my Startrite.

Good evening all

Yesterday I dismantled the trunnion and degreased all parts, filed off all casting joint lines while rounding off any sharp and ragged edges, staying clear off all machined faces.

Now the trunnion components are Keyed ready for painting, It's now time for the tedious task of masking up.

Paint arrived today.

A couple pic's of bits masked up, will give them a light tickle with a smaller wire brush on the drill before primer coating is applied.


View attachment 106254 View attachment 106251


Ordered these from WDS today, and hopefully get a dolly welded up next week sometime if my mate can fit me in.
I'm so tempted to treat myself to a mig welder for this and future projects, though that will have to wait as I've still the motor to get sorted.

Will look into that tomorrow


View attachment 106235

Due to be delivered Monday


Regard Rob
 

MARK.B.

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Don't leave it to long before painting all that bare steel before the dreaded rust takes a fancy to it :eek:, my lad works for a talented guy who makes and restores all sorts of stuff and has a big Shot Blasting set up behind the barn, he earns a few bob on the side blasting stuff from customers . Only thing he now asks for apart from the cash :LOL: is that all items are picked up as soon as he calls to say they are done because when left for even a day in the barn after blasting rust will find its first foothold. So many complained when picking up stuff days later that they were rusty o_O one or two have got nasty and demanded it done again for free :censored::censored::censored: they usually re think when my lad pops his head round the doorway though :). two cheeky chappies did try it on though :( at a shade under 6' 6 in his socks, so add another inch or so for his boots Add to that a thick wool jumper under his overall's o_O they damn near gave themselves a hernia trying to grab their stuff and load it when he stood up and ducking under the doorway asking politely ;) if he could help the two gentlemen through the door :LOL:
 

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LJM

I will let you know how these castors perform, and post pic's on the dolly. Hopefully in the next 2 week.

Mark

LOL

I'm with you on that, I've worked alongside painters most my career in the oil/gas industry. Ideally you want to get a primer coat on it within the first four hours, though I have seen I being as long as 12hrs.

I'm starting prime coating tomorrow and as I said, I will give those items a quick going over with a wire brush in the drill. As I have to do all myself, the prepping and masking up takes longest time for such a small piece, and I'm sure it will be ok.

I get the top halve back from the blaster tomorrow afternoon, and that'll also get primed.


Thank you guys for your input

Regards
 

Echo-Star

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Good evening all

Today I got started putting on the primer, I had to go over the piece's
 

Echo-Star

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The piece's I had done yesterday prior to prime with a small wire brush in the drill, 2 or 3 mins per item was all they required to freshen up the key, though the main trunnion body took around 20 minutes. anyway I got all done that was prepped, and moved on to the remaining 3 items to gone over with magic scraper, file and wire brush and those got there prime coating. looking around thinking what can I do next, Ah the fence, 1st of me getting a look at it since leaving Edinburgh, started dismantling and it came apart easily enough. So I thought I'd start cleaning the cam-lock end First, as it's a lump and soon got tired with it.

Got a delivery from amazon, so stopped and had a coffee, then UPS arrived with the dolly wheels, 12:00hrs right I'll go see if the blasting is done on the upper casting, It was being done as I arrived, 5mins later and job done. chewed the fat for half an hour then back up the road. A quick going over with the file, just to clean off any rough and sharp edges, then primed.

IMG_0062.JPG IMG_0068.JPG


Now I'm starting to see myself getting on, and may look at getting some green on tomorrow, or maybe not, as I still have lots off prepping to do. Getting back to the fence cam lock, that piece has taken longer to prep than any other piece, I must have been at it for nearly 4hrs today and Its not quite done yet, maybe an hour or so the morrow the I'll get started on the base unit.


Regards Rob
 

Echo-Star

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Good evening all

Today I finished off cleaning the cast ends from the fence, I then cleaned out the internal chamber off the fence, I was quite surprised at how much saw dust had accumulated in this enclosed cavity. I shall look at buffing the stainless body with Autosol polish before putting it back together. From there I went onto final clean of all or most of the nuts, washers, bolts and pins, as I will be looking to start on the final assembly in the next few days hopefully.

I tried calling Fraser & MacDonald 3 or 4 times yesterday about the motor and opening times, as it was my intention to go through to Glasgow this morn, And couldn't get through for whatever reason, anyway it'll be early next week, and I'll take the 3ph and switch gear with me, If they will reconfigure the windings for me, then I'll go with it. If not I'll see if I can get a trade in.

I then moved onto the side tables, again the 1st of me taking a look at these. On inspection I thought they looked quite clean no sharp or ragged edges. I then noticed this irregularity in the corner, what looked like a round disc shape, grabbed a scraper and gave it a scrape on the push stroke, and a bit/small chunk came loose, this got my attention, so kept chipping away and then on the wire brush.


IMG_0089 (1).JPG IMG_0090.JPG


It wasn't my intention to remove the paint from below the table, but after discovering this I thought it prudent to do so, in the off chance that there may be more area's off concern, and as you can see there are 3 more bits semi loose to be prised out. So I continued to strip the paint from both wings.


IMG_0091.JPG IMG_0093.JPG


Thankfully this was the only area. I'm baffled as to what could have caused this "any ideas"
The remnants of the paint you can see is imbedded in the pours of the cast, and will not inhibit the primer as it's well keyed. I'll spray with rust-oleum before hand, and let it evaporate before prime. There's little masking to do on those part's, an hour maybe.

That will be all the cast parts prepped to prime or primed, bar the main table. will prime the above first thing the morrow, then prep and prime the lower base.


Regards Rob
 

Spectric

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Can anyone advise on the most appropriate switch gear I should go for. I believe that a dol starter is not good enough on its own, and that I need another unit for protection.
The DOL starter is just fine, been around for ever, well almost. Your short circuit protection is provided by your electrical supply, ie the fuse in the plug. You also need overload protection because it is a motor, this device is fitted within the DOL and they come in various ratings and are adjustable.

This link shows the DOL & available overload units. MEM DOL Starters
 

Echo-Star

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Thank you very much Spectric.

Exactly the information that I was after, I'll get the motor and the Info required from the plate before I go ordering, I was looking at getting a 2.2kw Looking at the spec on the link you gave me, then I'd be looking at the TT91 4.7-5.6 amp full load overload relay.

With the dol off course

Thanks again
 

Echo-Star

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Evening all

Update on my old new saw.

painting completed on all trunnion components, all remaining components are prepped and primed, cabinet and tables away getting painted today and will get back on Saturday. little left to do now.

I took the motor to Glasgow on Monday to have the windings rewired to Delta. the price on a new 2.2kw brook crompton motor was £476 + vat, so that rules that out. I'll see how I get on with the 2hp wired with the VFD, and if I do need more oomph, then It'll be one off those Chinese efforts. I know buying British is best, but you can buy 12 horses from China for the price of three here

The Meddings on the bay, I offered £300 and offer was excepted, to be picked up on Friday and hopefully the motor also.

Regards Rob
 

TheTiddles

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That messy bit on the underside, is a slag inclusion. A lot less common these days, as “they don’t make them like they used to”

Aidan
 

Echo-Star

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Good evening all

Thank you Nic for your supporting comments, and Aidan for enlightening me, regarding that issue on the table underside.

Up date on the my old new saw. I missed a phone call from Frazer MacDonald on Thursday about the motor, and foe some reason I could not get through when I tried calling back. Anyway I had arranged to pick up this Meddings floor standing pillar drill on Friday, that had been advertised on the bay for £450 I offered 300 and was excepted. Pick up was from the Royal infirmary Glasgow, got there around 12;00hrs and called the guy. He said give me 10 mins as to arrange forklift and bring it from the stores. waited a half hour and called again, no answer. I waited and waited, then sent a text to say i was going over to Govan, to see about my motor. The motor was opened up on his workbench though he had done little to it as he was working on this huge motor, around 8ft high and sitting up on its end. It had a ladder leaning up against it, and another in the internal. As he was explaining what he has done to my small 2hp and still to do, his mate stuck his head up from inside this massive motor, with a 5ft girth and said, we wont get back to that anytime soon until we get this monster out the door. That said I then told that my motor will be ready next Tues, and the bill will be £60 + vat. I then called this guy at the royal again, no answer so sent another text and drove back over, waited another half hour and I'm now thinking that there's something iffy about this, I then text that I'm away home and that I'd mail him to see what the problem was. When I got back on the bay at home, I found that the add had been removed, and thinking there's was skulduggery going on here. I should have known that the add was to good to be true, as there was 2 or 3 other's off the same at 3 and 4 times the price, and I couldn't be so lucky. Dredd to think what other outcome could have came of it, lucky escape maybe. So that was my Friday and a big waste of time all round.


Now, on to a better note. I got the pieces back from the painters this afternoon, and could now look at putting the saw back together.

IMG_0185.JPG IMG_0184 (1).JPG

IMG_0186.JPG IMG_0190 (1).JPG

I was late in getting started today, as the painter asked if I'd help him out and move some scaffold. So by late afternoon I managed to get a start on fitting the foot castings to the base unit. I now need to look at getting a dolly in at this stage, even if it's just a temp fix for now. I require 75mm clearance from the foot base in order for these castors to have unimpeded movement. so was thinking 18mm ply bolted below the cabinet with a 100mm oversail on each end, then a 5 x 100 x 550/600mm steel plate bolted on top off the oversail at either end. That would then allow me to fit the castors as close too, while extending the actual footprint off the base dimensions bye 65mm on each corner for added stability. I cannot see any other options for this, as I have to gain access to the foot mechanism, to raise lower and level the table.


I'd be open to any other options here folks, and appreciated.


Rob
 

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Evening all

Another update, So I cut a template for the dolly from ply and fitted the wheels, a little crude, though I just wanted to see if the concept worked.

Put it together and sat the lower base with foot mounts on, well you could spin this thing round with one finger. Yes that'll work I thought, however with no real weight on it yet, and you could see that it could never support the full load off the machine, not to mention dynamic and kinetic forces. So then I thought, why no get an 8mm x 500 x 750 plate and fit below the base unit and the foot mounts "Ideal" so nipped down to my smithy friend and No Luck, every thing lying around was too thick, thin or tread plate. What I did get, was couple off 45mm galvanised angle frames, that'll do. I spent the rest off the day cleaning these up, as there was heavy mesh tacked into the frames, then rough cut to size from the ply template. This morn I flipped the base over and laid out the two 750mm angles over the bottom lower base. There's only 235mm available space between the foot mounts for this dolly, and I'm a little concerned about that at this time, and may need beefed up with another 2 pieces off angle cross members mounted internally, picking up the opposing sides.


the template parallel linear and 1st crossmember 10mm clearance on the wheel

IMG_0445.JPG IMG_0442.JPG IMG_0452.JPG

Excuse the mess, junk to go out, and units not completed.


I bored 18 holes today, in steps 4, 6 and 8.5mm I'm using M8 bolts for this, and as the down weight will be displaced equally to all four corners, and the saw gross weight being 180kg equates to 2 x m8 for 45kg taking load = plenty strong enough.

Should have the fabrication completed tomorrow, dismantle and clean up/round over all the corners and get ready for blast and painting.


Rob
 

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Good evening all

Update on the dolly, I have completed the build, for what It Is. All drilling setting up and more drilling, and my arms are aching with all this drilling being done free hand. I'm still on the lookout for a bench pillar preferably over floor standing. Anyway some pic's of the dolly.


The bare frame / with the wheels mounted

IMG_0476.JPG IMG_0470.JPG

mounted on the base / the underside

IMG_0458.JPG IMG_0462.JPG

Before I finished today, I stripped it down and rounded all sharp edges ready for blast and paint.

Three shifts I've put into this small project, and it doubled the weight off the base. I could have gone and purchased one that would have done the job. however, this being custom built, I've been able to get the base height down to 12mm from ground and 10mm clearance for wheel rotation from base, while there Is also 10mm on the foot pad off the wheel housing for leveling the machine.


Rob
 

Echo-Star

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Good evening all

I'm gutted, I was bidding on the bay for a sander, and got pipped at the post in the last minute. my last bid was 1080 not that I'm needing it right now, though thought it was a sound investment, the hammer fell before I got another bid in, and sold for £1100 It was the Phillipson DB166 Bummer, I should have had £1250 or more sitting in the pot, as I had my heart set on it.


Anyway lets move on. I don't think I've mentioned this, when I was dismantling the cast foot from the lower base, there was a fair bit off surface corrosion around the the bottom off the lower base and foot mounts, what's caused this. my first thought was has the machine been sitting outside, surely not as I was told the saw had never moved since new. Then It dawned on me, metal cross contamination. The lower cabinet is stainless and the foot being cast, and then a mild steel shim put in place. It was these shim's that were breaking down that caused the issue. Anyway they were rather thin and thought It best to make new one's, so I started on those this morning, so using one off the cleaner shim's already painted, I used as a template and cut four out, cleaned them up and marked on one from the template again, as to where the holes are to be drilled. So that done, I then punched the centre, clamped them together and then in the vice. Then without thinking I proceeded drill out the holes going through the bits from 3 to 10 and 1/2 all the half bit also, to make it a little easier going. Once done It then dawned on me that these holes were to be elongated, to late and there's no way that I could drill half a hole either side off the centre hole's I'd just done, bummer.

So clamped back together and out with the file. The workshop's a bit cluttered and untidy at the moment, with little room in front off the vice. I tried to persevere, though was making a pigs ear off It. So I separated them, and tried to tidy them up. Having a look I'm the one elongated should be enough, as the could also flipped over if need be, or more like I'm hoping so. On hindsight I should have got the jigsaw out and made life easy for myself.

IMG_0477.JPG


Well It's a shim and It wont be seen.


Moving on, I then cleaned up all the components for the dolly, rounding edges and taking off all the galvi with a flapper disc, as this paint does not do well with galvanised steel, as it said on the tin.

Primed and painted.

IMG_0481.JPG

While the paint was drying between coats, I started cleaning up one off the fence rails. I've had these in and out off a length off drain pipe, with a balloon taped round the bottom, and filled with citric acid over the past week or so. The front linear rack has been a nightmare, twice I've had to go up through all the teeth with my knife to prise all the wood out, thought wire brush would be to aggressive, so knife and tooth brush. today when I had a go at it out off the acid, It was so darn sticky, and was beginning to wonder if this thing had ever had the original machine oil cleaned from it when new, as that Is exactly what It smelt like.

Plenty more to do the morrow.

Rob
 
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