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Extremely accurate mitre saw required

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Ado

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As a professional picture framer I need spot-on 45 degree mitre cuts for my work. I use a floorstanding Morso guillotine which is the industry standard and gives excellent accurate cuts but is limited by its width. I want to expand into more custom built work using hardwoods and larger bought in finished moulding and for this I need a precise sliding mitre saw. I borrowed a friends Rexon machine and although I fitted a brand new 60 toothed Freud blade and checked the saws alingment with an engineers square, there was still enough of what he called "blade run-out" to put me off. If possible I'd like to keep the saw as compact and light as possible due to space constraints. On my shortlist of contenders is the following: Elektra beckum kgs 255; DeWalt 707 & 712. I'd be delighted to hear from any current users of these machines to get their feedback or anyone else that feels I've overlooked other possibilities.
 

gidon

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Hi
I think you may struggle to find such an accurate sliding mitre saw. FWIW GWW did a pretty comprehensive review of sliding saws across the range and they all had some play - in fact the Rexon came out best on that front (together with the Scheppach IIRC).
I guess shooting the mitres that don't fit on your guillotine is out of the question timewise?
I'm sure they'll be other more knowledgeable folk along shortly ....
Cheers
Gidon
 

Scrit

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I agree with the comments about accuracy of SCMSs. For ultra accuracy there are 4 ways to go:

(i) Cast-iron chop saw such as the Omga with an induction motor. Here's a page from the US web site - not cheap, but apparently the caravan building sector in the UK love them - accurate and indestructable. They are brilliant! A cheaper option may be the deWalt or Elektra Beckum induction motor chop saws (have had a DW, pretty accurate, but rated the RAS/mitre fence combo better). I've got a Makita LS1013 and whilst I rate it over the DWs (that's a personal thing) I still don't think it's accurate enough :(

(ii) Decent quality radial arm saw such as a Stromab RS650 in conjunction with a large mitre fence (deWalt certainly used to make these but you could always build your own). This has the advantage of doubling as a crosscut saw for general woodworking and it's capacity is much larger than any SCMS will ever have. I used to have one of these devices in conjunction with a DW125 RAS and it worked really well

(iii) Panel saw with electronic/manual mitre fence (Altendorf, Felder, etc) From experience the manual Alts are accurate to 1/4degree, but take up a heck of a lot of space and oh, what a price :shock: .....

(iv) There is always the lower cost option - good manual mitre saw (such as an Ulmia or Nobex) in conjunction with a jack plane and a mitre shooting board (see Jim Wearings books) or the Stanley equivalent (look for #51/52) for real galoots.

Scrit
 

Chris Knight

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I think you could also add to Scrit's list:-

a relatively inexpensive tablesaw set up with a sled to cut both sides of the mitre with the same jig (which is essentially a 90 degree corner triangle that allows one to cut a very pair of angles that add up to an accurate 90 degrees even if the individual semi-angles are not perfect 45s due to inaccuracies in set-up.
 

Jake

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Depends how much capacity you want. I'm relying purely on brand reputation here, as I've never seen one let alone used one, but I bet the Festool SYM-70 is pretty accurate. But it doesn't slide so its capacity will be limited.
 

JFC

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Ive just cut around 250 mitres today with a metabo cross cut saw and only 3 of them i wasn't happy with . With picture framing i assume you have some play because of the rebate so why not buy a cheap saw and a good blade to cut the mass of material and a good japanese saw to hone the angle . Clamp your frame together and run the thin saw down the mitre to get it perfect .
I also find that saw dust stops a site saw clicking into a true 45* so remember to clean the saw base every couple of cuts .
 

ProShop

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I bet the Festool SYM-70 is pretty accurate.
Even the Festool isn't accurate enough for the standard that Ado is looking for.

Chris IMHO has the best solution, simply because if you make the jig yourself you're in control of the accuracy that is required and you get consant repeatability every time and it's so simple to make and the real bonus it's cheap to make :) .
 

Scrit

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Ado

What budgetary/accuracy/repeatability/physical space constraints apply to this requirement, please? I assume that if you have a Morso you have a permanent shop set-up. BTW, do you sharpen your own blades on the Morso or put them out? If so what may I enquire what your sharpener charges, please? (for comparison)

Regards

Scrit
 

Ado

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Thanks to all who have responded so far. I was hoping to avoid shooting mitres or any other re-working due to time constraints. As dust is the enemy of the picture framer I can't do any cutting in the workshop. I sometimes rough-cut stuff in a storage area I have using a small cordless chop saw. As this room is down 3 flights of stairs and not very secure, I need to lug the saw up down so any purchase has to be reasonably lightweight. I can built a mitre saw workstation in this area but I wouldn't like to leave here. Does Gidon know what model of Rexon saw featured in the magazine test, and were any of the ones on my shortlist reviewed? FAO Scrit: I use Picturelinks in Glasgow for Morso blade sharpening, costing £12. I used to post them off to Lion in Birmingham who are reckoned to be the best. They have a specialist sharpening machine specifically for morso style blades. Their web is www.lionpic.co.uk.
cheers
Ado
 

Jake

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FelderMan":31i7fkii said:
and the real bonus it's cheap to make :) .
But a bit useless without the expensive table saw...

FelderMan":31i7fkii said:
Even the Festool isn't accurate enough for the standard that Ado is looking for..
Do you know that from experience? I doubt there would be much play in the saw, which is presumably why it is not a slider. The fence mechanism (which defines the angles) looks fairly simple to make accurately and is precisely the sort of thing that Festool excel at.

Much better to look at it than a Rexon, certainly.
 

Scrit

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Ado

I think that the old "formula" of weight = stability = accuracy still applies. Also, as soon as you move any piece of kit the accuracy can start to become suspect so you may be making a rod for your own back there. I understand what you are saying about dust, but if you need extremely large sizes you'll probably need to go to sawing - which in turn generates dust and the surface finish will only ever be as good as the run-out on your saw allows (hence the semi-serious suggestion about an Ulmia and a shooting board). There is one other possibility, however. Have you considered a Pootatuck Lion mitre trimmer? These are made to a pretty old design and have a bigger capacity than the Morso F-type - problem is I don't know how much. They also have an attachment for compound mitres (such as cornice or "crown" mouldings). I've read a review on these in FWW in the dim and distant past and they were rated highly - can't find where it was though :( . I've seen bigger versions of this design in antique sales on the odd occasion, too - and if you go that way you could always try to get hold of another mitre trimmer such the Hutcheons Patent design which certainly had a bigger capacity than the Morso (I had a Hutcheons Patent before getting the Morso - I'm also sure BB or Alf will be along to correct me :lol: )

Felder Man":1h57ohyg said:
Even the Festool isn't accurate enough for the standard that Ado is looking for...
Jake":1h57ohyg said:
... I doubt there would be much play in the saw, which is presumably why it is not a slider....
I totally agree. Part of the reason SCMS aren't that accurate is the the slider bars all flex under load/torque IMO. Also the angle markings are all a bit hit and miss (talking about DWs and Makitas, here) .Which was why I also suggested an non-slider mitre saw.

Ado

Thanks for the tip about sharpening services. My current sharpener doesn't do a brilliant job, and neither do I :cry: .

Scrit
 

SlimShavings

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I'll put my 2 cents in for a Stanley 100, Miller Falls No4 with 30 inch saw or the new 12 Bosch. Have all three and all are one cut.!

Dave
 

ProShop

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But a bit useless without the expensive table saw...
as Chris mentioned you wouldn't need an expensive saw table with his suggestion. But as Ado has outlined his workshop space this is idea is now redundant.



Do you know that from experience? .
Errr..yes, that's why I posted a reply, sorry.
 

Jake

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No need to apologise (even sarcastically), {edit: felderman removed the :roll: smiley which provoked this reaction} but you didn't say and it wasn't clear whether it was just opinion based on experience of mitre saws generally or something you'd heard or read somewhere, or what. That's why I asked.

Interesting though. Where does the slop come from?
 

Ado

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jake

I've had a look at the Festool but the Morso can cut 100mm wide so although I would trust the quality of the results ( I've used one of their fantastic plunge saws recently), the small capacity rules it out. Most of the feedback tends to put me off a slider now. The Festool angle could be of use though. I looked in their catalogue, and by combining the ts55 with their multi-function table, it could be a possibilty if it produces good resullts. Anyone got any thoughts on that?

ado
 
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