Extractor again

[garethharvey]

I know this has been done to death but there are a few questions I can't find answers for.

I have a small shop, table saw, radial arm saw, planer / thicknesses, band saw and table router. Also have some smaller tools such has hand held router, scroll saw, bobbin sander etc...

I currently have an Axminster Perform Extractor which is struggling as all tools are permanently fixed on 4" ducting. Are there any other alternatives to this extractor, I am happy to spend up to £600.00

I was thinking of building a cyclone extractor but struggling to find a powerful motor to run it. Most people talk about the cyclone but not the motor.

 

[MattRoberts]

The axminster FM300BC is a 2hp motor, and you can get it with a fine dust filter for about £450. You can leave it as-is or attach / build a cyclone or Thien baffle.

SIP also do a 2 or 3hp chip extractor.

 

[garethharvey]

Thanks, the Axminster one does now have very good reviews. I think I may struggle with the suction power on this. Looking at the Sip ones, I have found one with a 3hp motor.

Would you know if I could go any bigger than 3hp?

I have single phase.

 

[MattRoberts]

No - anything over 3hp is three phase (as far as I've seen). 3hp might also be a 16amp plug too, so bear that in mind

By the way, a few members on here have the axminster and have only said good things.

 

[Ttrees]

Find a DUAL voltage three phase motor on say ....ebay .....This should more than likely say 220/240V ..disregard the ...380/400V ...that's what dual voltage is.
You're gonna run it on low voltage i.e 220/240Volts.
that runs at about 2840 RPM (two pole motor) ....
You'd be looking for at least 3hp or 2.2KW for decent dust extraction .
Buy a 100 quid VFD/inverter single phase in 220/240V Chinese yolk .
Aswell as a start button and a stop button ...that together will cost about 3 or 4 quid incl postage
That will be a green button for "go" and a red one for "stop" .....
That will be a green button with "NO" ..normally open and a red with "NC"
Just BUY this stuff , the last sentence sounds complicated but its not .
If you had a saw or something you could add multiple switches of either .

I run a 24" bandsaw on a 13a plug and the single phase drill or belt sander i have with small motors causes more draw on the power....
I.e dims the lights in the house when I switch them on .
The reason is you can customize the length of time it will take to get to get up to speed .
Bob Minchin does an excellent write up on VFD's and induction motors
Hes the best ..and I've never looked back since I got the bug ... no more tin machines (apart from the cyclone I intend to make (hammer)
Happy cyclone building buddy
Good luck to you

 

[bigbob1]

Daft question but are you using blast gates or are you connecting one tool at a time?

 

[garethharvey]

Thanks, will take a look and see if I can pick up a motor.

Daft question but are you using blast gates or are you connecting one tool at a time?

Yes, I have blast gates at every machine. Run the workshop with 4" pipe, all jointed and sealed. The maximum length of pipe is approx. 9 mts, this goes up the wall, across the roof and back down the opposite wall.

The machine I have is just not powerful enough and being lazy, I rally don't want to move it from machine to machine.

A cyclone with the motor going directly on to some scrub land behind the shop is the answer.

 

[SteveF]

I could be wrong but motor size alone is not going to help is it?
they all turn the same speed
I thought the idea was that a bigger motor would allow a bigger impeller

Steve

 

[MattRoberts]

It's a combination of a bigger impeller, the speed of the motor as well as the ability of the motor to keep the impeller going under load. As a general rule, more hp equals more suck

 

[SteveF]

if you fit a 3hp motor to a 1hp machine without changing anything else will it spin any faster?
will it suck any more?

I am not trying to be clever or rude, far from it
if the answer is yes then I would consider such a thing when I get around to it

Steve

 

[Ttrees]

There's a fella by the name Marius Hornberger building another cyclone on youtube
also there's some cyclone builds on another Canadian woodworking forum .
4" ducting is not large enough

 

[siggy_7]

if you fit a 3hp motor to a 1hp machine without changing anything else will it spin any faster?
will it suck any more?

I am not trying to be clever or rude, far from it
if the answer is yes then I would consider such a thing when I get around to it

Steve

No. An induction motor will spin at close to synchronous speed unless overloaded. To get more suck, you would need the bigger motor and a larger impeller.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[MattRoberts]

if you fit a 3hp motor to a 1hp machine without changing anything else will it spin any faster?
will it suck any more?

I am not trying to be clever or rude, far from it
if the answer is yes then I would consider such a thing when I get around to it

Steve

Not quite sure what you're asking - the hp is the motor, so a 3hp motor would equal a 3hp machine??

 

[SteveF]

as I was saying
a bigger motor (hp) would not help the OP, but stood to be corrected
i read the comment from Ttrees suggesting Gareth gets a bigger motor
I was just trying to clarify

Steve

 

[MattRoberts]

Oh I see. Yeah, sticking a 3hp motor on an impeller designed for a 1hp motor probably wouldn't help too much

 

[Adam9453]

The best economical system I could design was using the quad bag sip 3hp (single phase) chip extractor with a separate cyclone bolted on top of a oil drum (oil drum is the collector bin).
I bought the big black plastic cyclone off amazon or ebay if I remember correctly.
I have used 6 inch ducting throughout the system and just used reducers at the machine end (if the machine only had a 4 inch outlet).
This combination works phenomenally well. The machines have virtually no dust build up in them despite cutting a lot of MDF and the bags on the extractor are both empty, all the dust is in the oil drum. The drum is 80% full now and I really must get around to emptying it.
I have a record fine air filter fitted but it really doesn't have much to filter as pretty much everything is dealt with by the main extraction setup.
The key as lots of other people have said is you need to look at each machine and address any issues it has with capture of dust. For example I had problems with the table saw spitting fine dust out the top as my crown guard had no extraction. I have now fitted one of those boom arm style overhead crown guards with dust extraction built in, the difference is amazing and well worth the expense in my opinion (i got the crown guard boom kit from axminster when they had it on offer for £100 as it was being discontinued due to them bringing out a new style one).

To summarise, you probably don't want to re-do all the ductwork so I'd agree, get a meatier extractor with a cyclone to stop it getting clogged up and you should find it much improved.

 

[garethharvey]

Thanks, is this the cyclone:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DUST-COMMA...id=1480079649&sr=8-5&keywords=plastic+cyclone

 

[SteveF]

Hi Gareth that is the small one which is only 2" pipework

Steve

 

[garethharvey]

I can't find the larger one, do you have a product code / supplier.

That would be great

 

[MattRoberts]

100mm cyclones are few and far between in the UK. There are some on ebay, but they're pretty expensive (£100-150)

A cheaper option is to build your own thien baffle - it's arguable a better and more compact design anyway