Extraction ducting advice please

[ScouseKev]

I'm fed up constantly swapping my extractor from machine to machine, so i've decided to go with spiral ducting.

Here's how i want to do it........ followed by a few questions.

The extractor is an SIP 01954 with an large air flow of 6900 m3/Hr. It has 2 100mm inlets, but could be changed to 1 150mm intake.

I want to house the extractor in a cupboard outside the workshop.

The longest ducting length would be 14m from extractor to machine.

My questions are:-

1) Will 100mm ducting be sufficient or should increase to 150mm.

2) Is 14m too long.

3) Anything else i should take into consideration.

Many thanks Kev

 

[9fingers]

I have 10m longest run to a planer. This can clog when cutting several mm off 8" wide especially green timber. Only once in a blue moon but it is a PITA when it does as it stops progress on the job in hand
I'd suggest 150mm if you can fit it in or is is possible to put the DC nearer the source of the waste?

I don't know what the price of spiral is but compare with drain pipe perhaps (toolstation prices are pretty keen certainly on 110mm)


Make sure you recirculate the filtered air back to the workshop with at least the same sized duct as your main inlet. If you have any form of heating or if your workshop is anything like draught proof otherwise you are wasting heat and suction will be compromised.
Make sure you know when your bag(s) is full otherwise your filters will be affected - especially if you have any sort of separator (cyclone esp).

hth

Bob

 

[tsb]

Is plastic wastepipe ok to use, as extraction ducting.

 

[9fingers]

Waste pipe is too small, guttering downpipe 68mm is ok for very short runs on dust but no good for chippings IMHO.
110mm or 150mm soil pipe is fine especially with swept branches rather than abrupt Tees. I also use a 45 degree branch followed by a 45 degree bend to give a 90 degree turn with less impact on flow.
Ignore anyone who tries to tell you to earth it in any way. This has no useful effect. Earth any metalwork naturally.

Bob

 

[ProShop]

I'm fed up constantly swapping my extractor from machine to machine, so i've decided to go with spiral ducting.

Here's how i want to do it........ followed by a few questions.

The extractor is an SIP 01954 with an large air flow of 6900 m3/Hr. It has 2 100mm inlets, but could be changed to 1 150mm intake.

I want to house the extractor in a cupboard outside the workshop.

The longest ducting length would be 14m from extractor to machine.

My questions are:-

1) Will 100mm ducting be sufficient or should increase to 150mm.

2) Is 14m too long.

3) Anything else i should take into consideration.

Many thanks Kev

I have Spirolux, although with a more powerful extractor, after 14 meters you'll loose a far bit of that suction at 100mm.
I'd go for the 150 as the main trunk and down to the various blastgates, then you could go to 100m on the flexi hose to the machine, (I assume the extraction hood has an 100m fitting on?) if it's bigger then go to that size.

IMHO opinion forget soil pipe and stick with spirolux, it's lighter and cheaper and less static and easy to fit. It looks better too.

Try to avoid using T connecters and use Y fittings instead, if you have to use T fittings use the soft T's avoid the sharp 90% bends and use soft bends instead, but the best fittings to use are the boot saddles.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I have the axi version extractor, looks the same but I think the axi one is less powerful. I had about 10-15m on the longest run. All spiral metal ducting and at the far most the suction wasn't worth it. I now moved it to the center of the shop and have one 100m line going one way and 1 100m going the other and its miles better. There is no more then 3 meters of pipe to the machine that needs the most suction in my shop, the P/T.

Currently the furthest away machine is the bandsaw and its still fine with around 6-7 meters of pipe. The real test will be when I get it to the lathe now thats been moved to the furthest away it can be to the extractor, which will be about 8-10m worth of pipe.

 

[JanneKi]

You can find some rules how to calculate the loss of suction etc. via these pages;

http://www.spiralmfg.com/downloads/dust_collection.pdf

It downloads a PDF file that explains some of the things and shows you one example (compilicated one). Avoid T-branches, avoid any hard 90 degree curves - they really kill the airflow.

 

[ScouseKev]

Thanks for all the replies, really appreciated.

Bob.
Soil pipe looks a real possibility but varies massively in price. Travis perkins £39.00 for a swept 45 deg tee and £11.00 at beesley& Fildes.
Can't find any 150mm though?

Proshop.
Is Spirolux a particular brand or just another name for Spiral ducting. I've googled it and not much comes up.

thanks again

 

[9fingers]

Sorry Kev! the next size up is 160mm. My mistake
Toolstation prices all inc vat & delivery

part no 91109 110 swept 45 deg £9.54
part no 10282 160 swept 45 deg £34.95
part no 90617 160/110 unequal swept 45 deg £31.97

Bob

 

[tomatwark]

I normally buy my spiral ducting on ebay.

Type in spiral ducting and it will come up, shop around on there though as the prices vary, and you will need rivets or self tappers and metal dust tape as well

I have a 2 bag 4hp extractor and I am running about 15m to the furthest machine and I do get a bit of suction drop even with that.

I would have thought that with a small 1 bag machine you may be asking to much of it to pull over 14m.

But if you are going to try it you want to keep it at 150mm for as long as possible and reduce it at the machine, and avoid flexi hose until the very last moment as this reduces the airflow because it is not smooth inside.

Tom

 

[ScouseKev]

Thanks Bob and Tom.

Extraction is a little difficult to understand. ie a 4hp Felder AF22 has an 18" impeller and gives 3100m3/hr and costs over a grand.

My Sip 01954 is 3hp, has a 13" impeller and gives 6900m3/hr and costs £260ish. Can you give me a quick explanation?
Thanks

 

[tomatwark]

Now you have opened a can of worms.

It depends on how the m3/hr is calculated.

On the cheaper extractors it is calculated one way and on the industrial machines it is done another.

I think from memory on a industrial machine they allow for a certain length of pipe and the filter bags being in place and on the cheaper machines the figure is the amount of air the fan moves on its own with no resistance.

I think I have got that right, it was explained to me when I was looking at up grading in this workshop.

The airflow on the P & J extractor I bought is 4394m3/hr and it has a 4hp motor.

Tom

 

[ProShop]

Extraction is a little difficult to understand. ie a 4hp Felder AF22 has an 18" impeller and gives 3100m3/hr and costs over a grand.

My Sip 01954 is 3hp, has a 13" impeller and gives 6900m3/hr and costs £260ish. Can you give me a quick explanation?
Thanks

Having been down the road of a fair few extractors (current Felder AF22) it's not only the volume per hour, but also the max depression (usually measured in Pa) these machines create at the machine head that makes the difference.

I'm having great difficulty in the Sip producing that much air flow per metre :?: There are various ways of measuring air volume but that's a hell of a lot for a 3hp motor :roll:

FWIW the Felder AF22 2 years ago was under £500 making it the most powerful extractor around of it's type. But like lots of things prices have gone up considerably. I didn't know it had gone up that much :shock: .

You mentioned Spirolux, try searching for spiral ducting there is a chain of companies with branches around the country were you can purchase, there is some Ebay sellers as well now.

The last time I looked it was certainly cheaper than soil pipe and a much better product.
I have some photo's if you want. Someone in another post on this thread said you need some rivets etc, but you DON'T need anything like that imho.

Hope this helps.