• We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

Exterior glue

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

Smithy

Established Member
Joined
16 Jul 2011
Messages
115
Reaction score
1
Hi

This is my first visit to the Forum. I would like to know what glue you find the best for outdoor projects. I currently use PU glue, but I am finding it difficult to find here in France and a bit expensive. I would like to use PVA exterior but I am concerned that it might not be good enough as it is labelled as exterior but under shelter. Any comments would be welcomed.

Thanks

Mike
 

woodbloke

Established Member
Joined
13 Apr 2006
Messages
11,770
Reaction score
0
Location
Salisbury, UK
Titebond III is the stuff I use and is considered highly water resistant, but this is not if the job is going to be continually immersed as is a boat hull, so for all normal run of the mill outdoor stuff (gates, tables etc) TBIII would be fine. If the job is under water then you need a urea formaldeyde glue such as Cascamite, or an epoxy (Araldite or the 'West' System.) There are other alternatives, but these are the two that come most readily to mind - Rob
 

ProShop

Established Member
Joined
19 Apr 2004
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
0
Location
North Lincolnshire
Most exterior glues PVA are D3 spec. See if you can get a D4 spec which is made for purely exterior work and is not as expensive as Titebond 3 which is essentially a D3 spec, imho it's an Ok glue but not anywhere near as good a D4.
 

Smithy

Established Member
Joined
16 Jul 2011
Messages
115
Reaction score
1
Many thanks for your replies. I will have a look at the Titebond site. I have never seen it any shops over here so this seems the way to go. Once again many thanks.
 

joiner_sim

Established Member
Joined
7 Jun 2007
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
0
Location
Staffordshire
I am currently using Exterior Evo-Stick glue and so far had no problems with it. But as its already been said, if its going to be a marine application, Cascamite is the best! I think it's now known as Everbuild's Resintite and it's good stuff, used to used it for gluing up windows and doors.
 

Jake

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2004
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
107
Location
London
woodbloke":2xa4cu3d said:
Titebond III is the stuff I use and is considered highly water resistant, but this is not if the job is going to be continually immersed as is a boat hull, so for all normal run of the mill outdoor stuff (gates, tables etc) TBIII would be fine. If the job is under water then you need a urea formaldeyde glue such as Cascamite, or an epoxy
Ditch the yank hang up with Titebond and there are many D4 PVAs which would be better for exterior use.

Cascamite is D3 and not suitable for immersion, and in my over-engineered mindset therefore not fit for exterior use. Cascophen is/was the - resorcinol rather than urea - D4 stuff.

Really for exterior most stuff I think a serious polyurethane* is a way better option than PVA or epoxy, although I'll happily use any of them when I have to for particular purposes - e.g. for gap-filling epoxy rules.


*I've tried quite a few and nothing yet has come close to Balcotan (preferably, if you have the time) or Balcotan Rapid. I think there is a lot of rubbish PU glue around including those from some very famous US and UK brands.
 

Shrubby

Established Member
Joined
12 May 2007
Messages
684
Reaction score
0
Location
London
Mike
I'm with jake - if you want PU then Balcotan
In France look for Henkel products like Ponal,pattex or Elch pro there will be D4 exterior systems in their vast range and without the fashion pricetag
Matt
 

RogerS

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2004
Messages
17,391
Reaction score
78
Location
In the eternally wet North
woodbloke":m9vqv6ao said:
..... If the job is under water then you need a urea formaldeyde glue such as Cascamite......
Not from what I've heard. Woodsmith ran an extended test on glues for external use and IIRC, Cascamite was the first to fail.
 

woodbloke

Established Member
Joined
13 Apr 2006
Messages
11,770
Reaction score
0
Location
Salisbury, UK
RogerS":29qek99l said:
woodbloke":29qek99l said:
..... If the job is under water then you need a urea formaldeyde glue such as Cascamite......
Not from what I've heard. Woodsmith ran an extended test on glues for external use and IIRC, Cascamite was the first to fail.
You may well be right Rog, but Cascamite was certainly sold as being suitable for boat building if memory serves, but I'm probably wrong...possibly it's more highly water resistant than water proof. I don't use the stuff any more so if I had a job where a truly water proof glue was needed, I'd have to do a bit of research - Rob
 

Benchwayze

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2007
Messages
9,450
Reaction score
108
Location
West Muddylands
joiner_sim":mhjqqb07 said:
I am currently using Exterior Evo-Stick glue and so far had no problems with it. But as its already been said, if its going to be a marine application, Cascamite is the best! I think it's now known as Everbuild's Resintite and it's good stuff, used to used it for gluing up windows and doors.
I bought some Cascamite. A large pack. It's now called Polymite.
The glue is useless. It doesn't bond.
I glued cedar wood with it, and the joints fell apart during handling. I also used Cascamite some years ago for my own cedarwood gate. No problems at all. So something has changed. I am not the only person to complain. Go to this link:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/evo-stik-wood ... 1ltr/81882

Click on 'view reviews' and see what Charles Barles says.

Charles obviously uses a lot of glue, and he did some tests. Not an silly person then. I think you might be convinced. The Cascamite formula does seem to have been changed, probably to suit some limp-wristed European directive. The sadness is the manufacturer won't listen to the customers.

I have gone back to Evostick Exterior grade PVA.

HTH

John :)
 

jimi43

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2009
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
2
Location
Kent - the Garden of England
I'm with you John...but my cabinet maker friend swears by it. It did exactly what you say..just fell apart..clean new oak...

I think there was a thread about shelf life some time ago so don't want to bring all that up again...suffice to say...you won't find me using it again...

I use what I find works. Titebond Original worked for me in guitars...I tested neck joints with it and it broke on the wood not the joint...that's good enough for me. Titebond III is waterproof....so that works for me too.

I don't really do chemical analysis on glues...I don't have time and it doesn't bother me if it's D3 or D4 (whatever they are)!

It's like brake fluid...my mate who worked for NASA put DOT4 in my MG...cos he had some...and he said it was better by far than DOT3. Frankly if he put Dot Cotton in the pipes and it stopped when I needed it I wouldn't be bothered about its atomic structure!

Use what works and get on with enjoying woodworking...unless of course the OP is making a lifesize model of Thunderbird 4....then that might be a different story! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

Benchwayze

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2007
Messages
9,450
Reaction score
108
Location
West Muddylands
Indeed Jim,
Although the Cascamite I used for my gate was at least two years on the shelf, so shelf life was either better then, or the manufacturer was cautiously understating. Shame really, as I the 'Polymite' disaster was a 'first use'. It was about a month old and unopened.

I want to be able to glue up without worries so I stay with Evostick from now on!

John :)
 

Jake

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2004
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
107
Location
London
jimi43":u6fywoqz said:
I don't really do chemical analysis on glues...I don't have time and it doesn't bother me if it's D3 or D4 (whatever they are)!
From the sounds of it you don't much care, but D3 is water resistant (i.e. should not turn back into goo if it gets a bit damp for a bit now and possibly maybe again) and and D4 is said to be waterproof (subject to limits). So non-trivial qualities for exterior work. There are obviously more precise tests behind it.
 

jimi43

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2009
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
2
Location
Kent - the Garden of England
Jake":1rm31ch6 said:
jimi43":1rm31ch6 said:
I don't really do chemical analysis on glues...I don't have time and it doesn't bother me if it's D3 or D4 (whatever they are)!
From the sounds of it you don't much care, but D3 is water resistant (i.e. should not turn back into goo if it gets a bit damp for a bit now and possibly maybe again) and and D4 is said to be waterproof (subject to limits). So non-trivial qualities for exterior work. There are obviously more precise tests behind it.
I do care...about experience and I used Titebond III on oak boards for an exterior table and it has been outside for two years now without a problem.

Thanks for the clarification...for boatbuilding...which I may get into soon...I will bear that in mind. At the moment...experience tells me that Titebond III works...and I stick to what works and certainly don't get hung up by premium branding.

Others here swear by Cascamite and I am sure that it must be fantastic...people don't get so emotional about the properties of a product for many decades if it failed. It just didn't work for me each and every time I tried it and I think that if I have to work hard to care for a product just to make it work...then that is a step too much when others work perfectly and even when left in a cold workshop for a few years between uses!

There is no right answer to this glue thing...like there is no right answer to sharpening or drawer making or all the other emotive subjects that come up more regularly than chestnuts here...

It is up to the OP to decide what they want to try given the various suggestions which follow their enquiry.

Jim
 

Benchwayze

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2007
Messages
9,450
Reaction score
108
Location
West Muddylands
There was a time when I used Cascamite for exterior jobs and the ordinary grade Evostik for interior work.
So I was happy with either. Like Jim, if something lets me down then I stop using it. Personal experience and another's tests and opinions have convinced me Cascamite is no longer what it was.

So I have a tub of modern Cascamite, which failed me, and I wasted my money, because I shan't use it again, except maybe to cast some Pot-Plant dibbers, for potting on my Fuchsias! Now I am using Evostik PVA Exterior grade. Overkill for furniture but at least I know it's going to be good for either.
For boat building, I think I might have to try some other adhesive, but as I don't think I shall be building any boats, it's academic to me.

But. to each their own...

John :wink:
 

jimi43

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2009
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
2
Location
Kent - the Garden of England
Of all the forums I visit....I think that the woodie community is the one most full of people who are set in their ways and very certain of their choice being right based on experience....and I think that there is much to be said for this. This doesn't mean to say that we are resistant to change...just a little more sceptical and difficult to convince. If any expert here wants to send me a new super product...I would be more than happy to test it side-by-side against the ones that I currently use and have yet to let me down!

A good many products have either been superceded by better ones...or more and more these days are producing inferior products whilst relying on their brand reputation.

Many powertool manufacturers are riding this wave at the moment!

We must bear in mind that we are not all professionals in the true sense of the word and we store consumables for many months between use if not years. Open longevity is a requirement for this situation and Cascamite and some PU glues seem to be very poor in this area.

I am no expert on glues...clearly...and a bit of a neanderthal as far as readily adopting new technology for the sake of it...(I still use hide glue sometimes)....but I do think we can get more wrapped up in the glue....rather than getting on with working on what it is being used on!

All the above changes where boatbuilding is concerned and for that application...I would seek the advice of experienced boatbuilders...not joiners or cabinetmakers.

Jim
 

Smithy

Established Member
Joined
16 Jul 2011
Messages
115
Reaction score
1
Hi After much searching I have found a PU glue made by Henkel. At €6. 50 for 250ml it is not to bad a price. I make a lot of bird boxes. The body is coopered with twelve staves and then I put it on the lathe to finish it off. As these birdboxes will be exposed to all weathers I wanted to be sure I was using a decent glue.

Mike
 
Top