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Experimenting with the Grimsdale method

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sdbranam

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Ok, I've read the back-and-forth here on sharpening techniques, so at the risk of igniting a flame war :shock:, here's a 2-part blog post on giving Mr. Grimsdale's method a try, including a video at the end of part 2.

http://www.closegrain.com/2010/04/grimsdale-method.html

I offer this in the spirit of learning and expanding my skills. Now I'll duck and cover!
 

bugbear

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sdbranam":cgh4ib0m said:
Ok, I've read the back-and-forth here on sharpening techniques, so at the risk of igniting a flame war :shock:, here's a 2-part blog post on giving Mr. Grimsdale's method a try, including a video at the end of part 2.

http://www.closegrain.com/2010/04/grimsdale-method.html

I offer this in the spirit of learning and expanding my skills. Now I'll duck and cover!
Hmm. Haven't read Grim's write up for a while. It appears to be evolving into good ol' double bevel.
grim":cgh4ib0m said:
1. If you already have an edge in good order which just needs a bit of honing:

Start on the fine side of the stone, well charged with oil at all times.
The chisel or plane blade is worked energetically up and down on the oiled stone, being held so that as near as possible it doesn't exceed 30 degrees.

.
.
.

2. An blunt edge which needs a bit more than just honing:

You need to back-off more of the bevel on the coarse (faster) stone so you repeat the process exactly as above but at a shallower maximum angle, usually 25 degrees...
BugBear
 

SBJ

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SDBranam - Nice articles, though you may want to post them on wwuk as it seams that Jacob isn't able to post here any longer and I'm sure he would apprectiate seeing it.


I would be interested to hear what your thoughts are after using the system for a while.



BugBear- I think it always has been, it's not the angles that are different, it's the technique to achieve them. Unfortunately, some people have been more interested in rubbishing Jacob than listening to him.
 

Paul Chapman

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Hi Steve,

I watched your video. I was surprised that you use the strop in your hand rather than on a flat surface. Using it the way you do would surely tend to dull the edge :?

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 

sdbranam

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SBJ, thanks for the reminder, I've cross-posted.

Paul, I based stropping on a hand-held piece of leather on the video here: http://furnituremakersapprentice.net/sharpening.html. And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!

However, this article http://antiquetools.com/sharp/sharpstropping.html at Tools For Working Wood/Woodworking Museum clearly shows stropping on the flat.

I'm interested in hearing opinions on the details of either method. These are the two best demonstrations and descriptions I've seen of stropping (most books and articles just say "strop the edge"), and of course, they are completely opposite in approach!
 

ByronBlack

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Steve, good write up, this is very similar to a method taught to me by Bruce Luckhurst, but we didn't make a consertive effort in making the convex round over, instead we held the iron at the desired angle and rocked back and fourth maintaining the angle, this produced excellent results. I'm not sure I understand the benefit of the convexing aspect, and I fear for the tips of your fingers with the speed you go at! :D but I really enjoyed the video.

Out of interest, why the change from diamond stones to oil stones? Wouldn't grims method work equally well on the dmt's?
 

sdbranam

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Byron, my interpretation is that it's not so much a matter of specifically trying to get a convex bevel, it's more a matter of not obsessing so much over a flat bevel. Don't need laser-guided GPS-enabled jigs. Just let it fly. The convex bevel is then the logical consequence. Rather than fearing the curve, embrace it.

The one definite issue with a flat bevel is that it has to be repeatable. Once you've carefully gotten a 30 degree bevel on there, if the next time you hone it you only get to 29.9, you may not actually be resharpening it. Or you end up having to take off a lot more metal. That was definitely one of my complaints with using a jig. I found all that fussing about annoying and unnecessarily time-consuming. I wanted to get back to working the wood.

And I'm sure blood is an effective honing medium :D (I am up to date on my tetanus shot).

This method did indeed work equally well on DMTs. I have a couple of reasons for not using them.

One is that I'm trying to get my hand tool skills down to bare essentials. My particular obsession is to be able to work the way someone in the 1800's did; I admire that versatility and self-reliance. As a hobbyist I'm clearly romanticizing that aspect a bit, because some of these tasks done hour after hour, day after day would be crippling labor. Hand-ripping a rough 8' plank is fun; hand-ripping 1000 of them will kill you. But the India stones appeal more to my desire for traditional methods than the DMTs. Norton probably uses laser-guided GPS-enabled robotic cutters to produce them!

Second, when people ask me how to do stuff, instead of telling them to go spend $250 on high-tech sharpening stones (and watch their eyes pop out of their heads), I can honestly offer them a reasonable alternative that only costs half as much (less popping). I realize it's an investment, but it's possible to buy in at different levels.
 

Vann

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sdbranam":16etz2in said:
And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!
I was taught to strop an edge on my palm and I still do it every time (it's about the only handtool skill I have retained after 30 years out of the trade :oops: ). I've never cut myself either (that I recall).

However, this is done without any honing compound, rather it's purpose was said to be to remove any feather edge still clinging to the cutting edge after sharpening.

Cheers, Vann.
 

Modernist

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Vann":z1078gbh said:
sdbranam":z1078gbh said:
And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!
I was taught to strop an edge on my palm and I still do it every time (it's about the only handtool skill I have retained after 30 years out of the trade :oops: ). I've never cut myself either (that I recall).

However, this is done without any honing compound, rather it's purpose was said to be to remove any feather edge still clinging to the cutting edge after sharpening.

Cheers, Vann.
I agree with that, and the reasoning, but take the slightly safer route of using Levis
 

grahamar

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Thanks for the information and video.
I found it very interesting and appreciate the time/effort in sharing it.

I currently don't have the Arkansas Hard Stone ( the grey/gray stone) you used at the end. I stop at the Norton Fine stone.

I was wondering what affect honing on the Hard stone has compared to just finishing on the Norton Fine stone ?

Thanks

Graham
 

dannykaye

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sdbranam":29s7kiyk said:
SBJ, thanks for the reminder, I've cross-posted.

Paul, I based stropping on a hand-held piece of leather on the video here: http://furnituremakersapprentice.net/sharpening.html. And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!
In school in the 70's I was taught to strop on my hand to remove the burr...
 

woodbloke

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dannykaye":1hlxws0k said:
sdbranam":1hlxws0k said:
SBJ, thanks for the reminder, I've cross-posted.

Paul, I based stropping on a hand-held piece of leather on the video here: http://furnituremakersapprentice.net/sharpening.html. And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!
In school in the 70's I was taught to strop on my hand to remove the burr...
In Jeremy Broun's DVD about Alan Peters, he's shown stropping a plane iron on his hand. Something I've never done and wouldn't recommend either as a leather strop glued to a bit of mdf has got to be the cheapest method of refining an edge and probably much safer to boot - Rob
 

dannykaye

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I've never cut myself that way in about 40 years, if that is dangerous enough to stop people doing it how does anyone ever use a table saw?
 

bugbear

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SBJ":1dejjoe0 said:
BugBear- I think it always has been, it's not the angles that are different, it's the technique to achieve them. Unfortunately, some people have been more interested in rubbishing Jacob than listening to him.
The rubbishing is well earned, IMHO.

There is no benefit, when aiming for a (e.g.) 30 degree bevel doing strokes (or part of strokes) at any angle other than 30.

BugBear
 

andy king

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At the risk of causing a punch up, I would say its a long drawn out method from the video.
Also, more contentiously, the chisel especially isn't what I would term sharp judging by the effort needed to try and get it to cut on the piece of cherry.
Just IMHO of course.

cheers,
Andy
 

head clansman

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hi all


If i were to sharpen a plane blade or chisel using to old oil stone method i would as i was taught to during my apprenticeship strop the blades in my hand to remove any wire edge ,till i started using the scary method now i use nothing else. I use a veritas jig to get the angles i want, I get the exact angle that i want ever time with a highly polish razor edge and to use the palm of my hand to strop, no way. :roll: hc
 

Philly

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Steve
Have you tried hollow grinding your irons? Freehand sharpening then takes seconds, regardless of the stones used. And I'm sure the old boys used to grind their blades on big water cooled wheels, so its a time tested method?
Cheers
Philly :D
 
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