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EVs again - the sensible approach

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Trainee neophyte

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I do not see how any Government will be able to or even want to reduce the consumption of their populations sufficiently to make a difference.
The conspiracy theorists would note that covid lockdowns look suspiciously like the sort of behaviours being advocated to reduce the "Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Emergency " (tm).

We also have the loonies at the World Economic Forum with their "Great Reset(tm). They seem to have bought all the EU politicians, and quite a few others, too. The Great Reset

Interestingly, we also had the bank crisis of autumn 2019 (which was kept fairly quiet), which might, if your tinfoil hat is snug and at the right angle, be the reason for everything that has happened since. Consumption is down, energy usage is down, and the world economy is still functioning, sort of. The plate jugglers are actually doing a pretty good job of managing a gentle decline instead of bringing about catastrophic banking failure. The same emergency funding which saved the day in 2019 has just been reinstated as a normal, everyday, longterm facility, so that must mean everything is just fabulous in the system.


But obviously all the above is just conspiracy theories. Everything is actually exactly as explained by the Guardian and the BBC.
 

jim1950

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is the long term plan for overhead powered HGV'S driverless trucks??
 

stuart little

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The real failure is in growing trees up mountains rather than next to the rail terminus. Trees are felled, logged and loaded onto trucks which must then get to civilization. Is it sensible to then offload the logs onto flatbed railway trucks, ship them, then reload onto trucks to get to the factory which is also not at the rail terminus? Perhaps we should lay rail tracks directly from the forest to the pulp mill.
There used to be 'logging railroads', but they all went into disuse decades ago.
 

Jacob

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is the long term plan for overhead powered HGV'S driverless trucks??
There are no long term plans, just a few vague sketches. The easy option for govts is to look at mitigation of effects rather than the much more urgent and significant causes of Climate Change
 

D_W

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There used to be 'logging railroads', but they all went into disuse decades ago.
Here where logging is still common on some private land, railroads may have gone to certain landings, but the bulk of complicated log movement was done by steam donkeys, etc (I think there are cable systems now with independent gasoline motors running on the cable systems toting the logs).

The reality is in terms of logging those dangerous areas is that the price of lumber won't support it and it's not needed. The hills were stripped here by the railroads as I recall (and the state that I live in is more than 50% wooded now, 150 years later). The forests aren't the same trees as they were the first time around.
 

Cabinetman

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Here where logging is still common on some private land, railroads may have gone to certain landings, but the bulk of complicated log movement was done by steam donkeys, etc (I think there are cable systems now with independent gasoline motors running on the cable systems toting the logs).

The reality is in terms of logging those dangerous areas is that the price of lumber won't support it and it's not needed. The hills were stripped here by the railroads as I recall (and the state that I live in is more than 50% wooded now, 150 years later). The forests aren't the same trees as they were the first time around.
I must say you’re right I noticed it when I first arrived in Pennsylvania there were no large trees, nothing above 24 inch diameter – that I could see from my car lol
 

D_W

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yes, lots of unmanaged brushy areas.

Some parks and yards (and open pastures) do have some big ones in them, though.

This is a local free park here - the sycamore on the right is about 6 feet on the stump or a little more. I doubt it's more than 120 years old. The oak in the foreground is about 2/3rds that. I'd love to get my fingers on a couple of sections of the sycamore to quarter, though, even though it's a leaner. American sycamore quartered is really vivid.

Oak, not so much.

(pinoaks are one local favorite here due to fast growth, though. They're the "you'll find out that's too close to the house in a few years" tree. Neighbor planted three 15 years ago - one was already removed and the next closest tree is getting a little iffy. They can be 4 or 5 foot at the stump when they're 8 years old, and hard, but I don't know if they're usually hollow - lots of disease in second growth trees here).
 

D_W

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Sorry, 80. When they're four or five feet at the stump, they are gigantic trees with a huge canopy. Yes on large growth rings when they're planted in the open to start. There's a county park here that's wooded with the same trees and they'll 2/3rds the size with at least 125 rings. Some are very close together, I guess depending on what lived around them.

I'm guessing at 80 years old because this hilltop was an airport until the late 1930s and the oldest houses in the neighborhood are from the mid 1940s. Old neighborhood, so houses not very american....smaller on relatively small lots. 350 houses on 200 acres including dropoffs. At any rate, the large trees wouldn't have meshed with airplanes well. It went from open pasture to that to houses.

A5 5 feet, rings would be just under 3 per inch on average. Fil has 50 year old pinoaks that are about 30 in diameter. If the neighbors go on vacation, I can measure their 60 or so foot tall tree. It's 16 plus nursery age, probably 25-30 total and chest diameter around 20 inches. Oaks here are choice firewood trees as their density is better when they grow fast, despite it making for ugly lumber.
 

D_W

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Those are red and pinoaks. White oak are taller and more slender and more desirable.
 

D_W

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I've got a guitar blank made out of honduran mahogany that was supposed to be good flatsawn wood. The ends were sealed. I scraped the wax off after it had some time to complete drying and it's clear that it was an open sun plantation tree. The rings near the pith are an inch apart.

The old county park trees here are much closer rings at the outside - once the stand was mature, they stopped growing much.

(looking up pinoak, my neighbor's trees fit the description. "more than 2 feet of growth per year"). The trees at the lower end of the neighborhood are bigger than the size range provided in wiki and definitely a lot taller than 70 feet - the canopy is probably close to 70 feet wide. I'll try to figure out what they are..
...

the discussion of rings is probably a clue that the sycamore tree that I covet wouldn't be that great. Who wants quartersawn wood with rings half an inch apart.

American sycamore trees prior to settlement could grow large enough to take shelter in after the center of the stump rotted out - looking up the description now (they're generally found near creeks, rivers and draws here), they will grow up to 10 feet in diameter at the trunk second growth, and they shed bark (which some people don't like - it just falls off like they're sick, but it happens constantly). The tree advice site said they destroy sewer lines which explains why nobody plants them. flecking in it can be intense and it works nicely by hand (it's not hard - maybe about as hard as cherry).


(All that said, really large trees left unmolested are the exception, and the original tall pines were removed for railroad fuel and never came back. Neither did the big disease resistant beaches and along the east coast, like maine, the coast is deciduous as that beats the conifers after clearcutting. Too bad).
 

D_W

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Not sure if this can be seen there - goog doesn't do these trees justice - you can get a little bit of an idea of their width comparing them to the sidewalk. They're not 5 feet but probably 4 -the canopy is spectacular and maybe they're older than I think. I always wonder what's in the middle of them when I walk by them (But they're yard trees, so likely to be pretty ugly if opened up - streaks of stain from steel). Extremely sound strong trees with canopies wider than the lots (lot width is about 60 feet.

Glad not to own them. The arborists here have all gone to bucket trucks, which just makes the price even higher, and the shade that they cast is hard on asphalt roofs. This pair is enormously larger than the rest of the trees around, and they're far enough at the edge that they may have been out of the way re: the airport strip.

 

Jameshow

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Not sure if this can be seen there - goog doesn't do these trees justice - you can get a little bit of an idea of their width comparing them to the sidewalk. They're not 5 feet but probably 4 -the canopy is spectacular and maybe they're older than I think. I always wonder what's in the middle of them when I walk by them (But they're yard trees, so likely to be pretty ugly if opened up - streaks of stain from steel). Extremely sound strong trees with canopies wider than the lots (lot width is about 60 feet.

Glad not to own them. The arborists here have all gone to bucket trucks, which just makes the price even higher, and the shade that they cast is hard on asphalt roofs. This pair is enormously larger than the rest of the trees around, and they're far enough at the edge that they may have been out of the way re: the airport strip.

So which garage has all the fine chisels in....?!!! 😂😂😂
 

D_W

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hah...one of the dumpier houses, different end of the neighborhood.

I haven't met a woodworker here in the neighborhood so not much potential trouble with things getting lifted.
 

Spectric

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The Uk government wants to stop diesel use, to much pollution so what about that new carrier, the Elizabeth that requires 4,000,000 litres (880,000 gallons) of F-76 diesel every time it's refueled. Where will they get that if our refineries are no more?
 

TRITON

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The Uk government wants to stop diesel use, to much pollution so what about that new carrier, the Elizabeth that requires 4,000,000 litres (880,000 gallons) of F-76 diesel every time it's refueled. Where will they get that if our refineries are no more?
It's not that we'll stop using it, its the public will be forced to stop using it. Trucks to trains to aeroplanes, industry et all will still use it as a source of power
Help offset all those import goods sailing up from South America or China, and still be able to state the UK is nearly carbon neutral.
 
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