You don't have to earn a huge amount to be in that 1%. According to this site How rich am I , if your post tax income is 70k, and only 2 in the house, you hit the 1%. Not sure if it's accurate? 1% of worlds population is about 79 million. According to the article you quoted each 'rich' person will generate 70 tonnes of CO2, so that's about 5 billion tons, the annual output of the US,. The figures just don't add up to me, but I think it highlights a problem. Not sure I agree with the scale of it.
Energy Saving
- Thread starter The Sheriff
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heimlaga
Established Member
I agree.
The worst thing I do is driving approximately 12000 kilometres a year by car.
That is a good example where I wait for government intervention as I cannot change it myself. We need functional bus lines in the countryside as well as a diversified job market where everything doesn't necsessarily happen in town!
What are your worst ecological sins chaps?
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
I drive to the beach. It's only 3km each way, but what can you do? Entirely unnecessary and profligate misuse of resources.
Yes, but the figures are all related to the global population. Not just the U.S. or first world.
If you earn £70k in the U.K., or $100K post tax in the U.S. you are in the richest 1% of the global population and by 2030 the top 1% will account for 16% of emissions. I find the figures hard to believe actually. I'm sure there a lot of people on this site who according to "How rich am I" will be in the top 1% globally, but won't be producing anything near 70 tonnes of CO2 by 2030.
I suppose annual holiday flights and cruise are the worst. That's what I worked for for 40+ years and I will continue to do it. It is necessary for my wellbeing and if I was home I probably would produce more CO2 by having the heating on
Most of the other things I do are necessary for existence.
Not really. We recycle, we went with green electricty supplier over the others, we are trying to eat more veg ( although allegedly thats not as eco friendly as it could be ) but i love my weekly fry up, i love beef and i absolutely love cider
To be honest though, my generation ( im 40 ) has no idea of hardship. We have millions of things to buy, stuff to watch, etc and the world is now aimed at selling you stuff and getting your money. Instagram, facebook etc are all pushing glamorous lifestyles and roducts based on your recent online activity at us, showing what we are missing and cant have etc, and yet, in reality, we are so very lucky not to be born in africa or Afghanistan or china etc.... what would we all do if we were faced with a real problem? Ring for a chinese i guess.
I suppose annual holiday flights and cruise are the worst. That's what I worked for for 40+ years and I will continue to do it. It is necessary for my wellbeing and if I was home I probably would produce more CO2 by having the heating on
I think you have nothing to be ashamed of traveling unless you're literally running around with the henny penny act telling everyone else how bit of a problem there is. We see a little too much of that. I don't believe anything is a real problem to someone if they don't act on it themselves.
Vegans have it all over climate change nutballs (note, i believe climate change is occurring - but if you think it's an enormous problems and you aren't making less carbon than you have previously in ways you can control, you're just a nutball).
Vegans tend to practice what they preach pretty well (well, I guess they have to by definition).
I don't think anyone who flies by discretion and claims that they care about climate change really cares about it at all.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Walk? Cycle?
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Many seek to justify their use of energy - often it is just a weak excuse for the non-essential.
I drive a modest 3 year old hatch covering ~10k pa. We could walk or cycle to shops, and use trains and buses for some other journeys. But a comfortable (not large) income means it would take either energy tax increases or legislation to change behaviours.
We travel by air typically once or twice pa - usually short haul to Europe. I thoroughly value escaping a UK winter for 10-12 weeks on the Med, but it is hardly essential. Train or coach may be alternatives - less energy, but currently more time and money. I am disinclined (without legislation/taxes) to change.
Two of us live in a 1800sq ft house. It provides space for visiting family. Downsizing is possible. Energy saving measures are as likely to be based on the economic, not environmental.
I do the easy things without question - LED lighting, recycling where possible, don't buy plastic rubbish or consumer durables (TV, washing machine etc etc) unless necessary. This is as much because I am mean as environmentally motivated.
Because I have a comfortable income (not large by UK standards) I will only change behaviours when it is economically unavoidable (tax and legislative changes). In that I am honest enough to acknowledge I am as selfish and thoughtless as most of the rest of the population.
I would welcome a government which had the political courage to make the environmental and financial choice unambiguous - not the case at present!
I drive a modest 3 year old hatch covering ~10k pa. We could walk or cycle to shops, and use trains and buses for some other journeys. But a comfortable (not large) income means it would take either energy tax increases or legislation to change behaviours.
We travel by air typically once or twice pa - usually short haul to Europe. I thoroughly value escaping a UK winter for 10-12 weeks on the Med, but it is hardly essential. Train or coach may be alternatives - less energy, but currently more time and money. I am disinclined (without legislation/taxes) to change.
Two of us live in a 1800sq ft house. It provides space for visiting family. Downsizing is possible. Energy saving measures are as likely to be based on the economic, not environmental.
I do the easy things without question - LED lighting, recycling where possible, don't buy plastic rubbish or consumer durables (TV, washing machine etc etc) unless necessary. This is as much because I am mean as environmentally motivated.
Because I have a comfortable income (not large by UK standards) I will only change behaviours when it is economically unavoidable (tax and legislative changes). In that I am honest enough to acknowledge I am as selfish and thoughtless as most of the rest of the population.
I would welcome a government which had the political courage to make the environmental and financial choice unambiguous - not the case at present!
Rustic Mike
Established Member
Mmm elementary my dear Watson.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
I think that this statement sums up the situation well for a reasonable proportion of the UK, myself included.
I would like to do my bit but I don't want it to cost me a fortune and for the payback to be ridiculously long - especially when I sense that the really large polluters (countries as well as large businesses) seem to be paying lip service to what is being asked. The cynical side of me struggles to separate statement from action in much of what I see in the media. Far too many large organisations are saying the right thing and actually doing something completely different. Only when there is a mechanism to independently measure the change that they bring will their actual contribution become apparent.
Perhaps, in my younger days, I may have had a more generous perspective but, working hard all my life, it becomes natural to protect what I have accumulated in the same way that I sense the big polluters are doing. In this regard, it is totally selfish and I am not proud of it. However, it's just how it is.
Jameshow
Established Member
I think we do change our behaviours....
Think how we all rushed out and brought diesel engine cars!!
If we all rushed out to buy electric cars then
A) there wouldn't be the infrastructure to support them,
B) the manufacturing emissions would actually increase.
C) The manufacturing capacity isn't there to make them
D) most of us cannot afford them new and will wait for them to drip feel into the used market. Especially the more exciting ones.
E) They are not yet suitable for some applications - motorhomes, towing duties etc.
Cheers James
Think how we all rushed out and brought diesel engine cars!!
If we all rushed out to buy electric cars then
A) there wouldn't be the infrastructure to support them,
B) the manufacturing emissions would actually increase.
C) The manufacturing capacity isn't there to make them
D) most of us cannot afford them new and will wait for them to drip feel into the used market. Especially the more exciting ones.
E) They are not yet suitable for some applications - motorhomes, towing duties etc.
Cheers James
1.5 million miles
Half by car
Half by air
Thankfully no more.
I suspect that there's truth in the assertion that moving your pension fund to an ecologically sound provider will have 20x more impact than anything else you can do.
You could try to straighten it out but it keeps pulling itself together
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
So what should we do?
a) Nothing
b) As much as possible, as quickly as possible, to reverse the fossil-burning trend.
c) Engage in mass-debate (!) about how to do b) while doing a) by default?
There are huge vested interests in carrying on 'business as usual' - and we are all 'vested' to a greater or lesser degree - as earlier comments indicate. Personally, I see huge opportunities for those with the imagination and tenacity to change things for the better.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I love this conversation, it’s civil, honest and with many opinions all that are being respected.
I work for a company in the middle of the fossil fuels agenda and have witnessed it honestly thinking about its role in the future, and making huge changes and structure and strategy. It is unrecognisable from the company of a few years ago. Now of course it is financially motivated knowing FFs are a self fulfilling prophecy and change or long term die, but it is also one individual’s passion to make a big difference through the resources they control. It shows me there is motivation for change at all levels of society and business. Government need to incentivise business to drive change as fast as they dare.
I also reflect on the acid rain problem that Europe ‘solved’. I remember as a kid the news stories and everyone knowing we had to act. I can’t help thinking that I’d the internet had existed at that time it would have slowed the process. Critical thought is very important, but I think the internet enables the amplification of any opinion especially negative ones.
Personally my biggest env impact that I would hope I could impact with minimal personal change is heating my house. It’s an old granite building with zero wall insulation. We have a pretty low temperature at 18degC and jumpers are the norm in the house. But for all my research there is no solution to insulating the walls that does not involve gutting the place. Historic poorly insulated housing stock need to be a focus in this problem.
I work for a company in the middle of the fossil fuels agenda and have witnessed it honestly thinking about its role in the future, and making huge changes and structure and strategy. It is unrecognisable from the company of a few years ago. Now of course it is financially motivated knowing FFs are a self fulfilling prophecy and change or long term die, but it is also one individual’s passion to make a big difference through the resources they control. It shows me there is motivation for change at all levels of society and business. Government need to incentivise business to drive change as fast as they dare.
I also reflect on the acid rain problem that Europe ‘solved’. I remember as a kid the news stories and everyone knowing we had to act. I can’t help thinking that I’d the internet had existed at that time it would have slowed the process. Critical thought is very important, but I think the internet enables the amplification of any opinion especially negative ones.
Personally my biggest env impact that I would hope I could impact with minimal personal change is heating my house. It’s an old granite building with zero wall insulation. We have a pretty low temperature at 18degC and jumpers are the norm in the house. But for all my research there is no solution to insulating the walls that does not involve gutting the place. Historic poorly insulated housing stock need to be a focus in this problem.
