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D_W

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Yes this is something that software can deliver, if you look at the data file from say employee X then you will know when they logged on, keyboard activity over a period of time and if they are looking at anything not work related during that time, it is big brother. It will clearly show periods of inactivity and there are many functions that it can deliver to produce the boss all the data he/she needs to evaluate that employee's performance.
That can be done with in office PC's also. It's not just enforcement, but training, collaborative work and meetings.
 

D_W

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There's no need for all that monitoring, since if your not delivering, then you're obviously not doing the work.

The issue is that employers want there 8 hours of time, irrespective of the actual work done.

I worked for a year at ICI, @1996, and for five days a month I would work from home doing month end analysis, reporting etc on time and revenue across UK and Dutch project teams. My manager at the time was far more progressive, and providing the report was in on time, she was happy, even if I only did 6 hours a day. She was of the mind-set that sometimes home working was far more productive than being in the office.
The 2021 version of this is to get you to do the reporting in 6 hours in the office and add 5 more hours, and get you to take responsibility only promotions that offer potential raises later.
 

hairy

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On the surface that is OK but there is precious little employment in the countryside so everyone would have to move to the towns. You would end up with even fewer people living in rural areas, villages would die and rural housing stock would be unused. Back when agriculture employed a significant workforce villages could survive and perhaps thrive as a local economy. Now that agriculture employs hardly anyone very few people can live in a village and be close to their work.
This is where I think the current trajectory must take us.
If every bit of travel is bad it must be minimised.
So all food must be grown as close as possible to the people.
People must be as close as possible to each other.
This is the only logical end point to what we are told must happen.

In reading about how to grow more of my own I discovered that many years ago Paris used to grow all it's food with the confines of the city, but the cost of land eventually pushed all the growers out. And further out, and abroad etc etc
 

hairy

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If I could entirely work from home with a laptop I would be worried it could be done by someone cheaper anywhere?
WFH and not commuting is surely a white collar thing? Not wishing to poke anyone but the phrase "There has never been a lockdown, just poor people delivering things to rich people hiding at home" does have some resonance.
There will always be jobs that need a person to travel. If the costs of those go up as EVs seem to currently be forcing over the next ten years, those costs will be born by all those who are served by those jobs. I don't see how that is avoidable?
 

Spectric

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I'm 70, 6-foot 13 stone and in good health. Worked for me
But this addiction has come in later life, like me you came into this world before junk food took over and turned our youngsters into living humpty dumpties and space hoppers, we had healthy childhoods that we are now reaping the rewards of, plus you get plenty of sunshine down on the south coast, the locals up here get webbed feet.
 

Sachakins

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The 2021 version of this is to get you to do the reporting in 6 hours in the office and add 5 more hours, and get you to take responsibility only promotions that offer potential raises later.
The only way to achieve this at the office would be in a locked room with no phone hence no interruptions,
My point is that with in office interruptions it takes 8 hours and the firm are happy with that.
But if I can do it in 6 at home, then the firm want to see 2 more hours, which in actuality why businesses are stuck in the 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.
But in the office they get 6 hours work and 2 hours interruptions and faff! But the see an 8 hour attendance so they are happy.
At home they still get the 6 hours work, without the faff! But suddenly they think they've lost 2 hours work. This is such short sightedness.
 

selectortone

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But this addiction has come in later life, like me you came into this world before junk food took over and turned our youngsters into living humpty dumpties and space hoppers, we had healthy childhoods that we are now reaping the rewards of, plus you get plenty of sunshine down on the south coast, the locals up here get webbed feet.
Addiction?

(With apologies to readers wishing to discuss EVs) As my old Mum used to say, a little of what you fancy does you good. I don't think enjoying a takeaway with my daughter on a Friday night is doing me serious harm. I fully intend redeeming my 45-odd years worth of National Insurance contributions before I go off to meet the Great Spaghetti Monster In The Sky.

And anyway, mental health is important too, so I'll continue to enjoy a balanced diet with a few non-PC treats occasionally. Living an extra few years on a high-fibre cardboard diet doesn't really appeal to me. 😁
 
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D_W

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The only way to achieve this at the office would be in a locked room with no phone hence no interruptions,
My point is that with in office interruptions it takes 8 hours and the firm are happy with that.
But if I can do it in 6 at home, then the firm want to see 2 more hours, which in actuality why businesses are stuck in the 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.
But in the office they get 6 hours work and 2 hours interruptions and faff! But the see an 8 hour attendance so they are happy.
At home they still get the 6 hours work, without the faff! But suddenly they think they've lost 2 hours work. This is such short sightedness.
I don't disagree. Except the 8 hour office is rare here except in hourly jobs. I experienced this in 1999 as an intern. They fed us work for 8 hours (we were hourly as interns). A coworker in an easy practice got about 4 hours of work a day and wanted to leave and get paid for 8 hours, anyway. This doesn't make sense when you're paid hourly and it didn't occur to him to ask for something else to learn. He didn't return as full time after graduation.

But, in my profession, the tradition has always been to try to choke everyone with work if they're hourly simply because we are paid salary but bill hours.
 

MikeJhn

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An EV range should be given as a Max and Min and Average
Everything that can sap power ON or working near capacity
Nothing on and driving sedately at normal speeds.
Normal Driving with use of some electrical sapping devices and functions
Don't you know, you are not allowed to use any of the equipment supplied with the car whilst using it for its main purpose.
 

plum60

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I've read it takes about 100kw to produce 22kw of end power in a hydrogen powered car when you factor in production to the green hydrogen state and subsequent losses through to tyres turning.
Hardly Green.
Still hopefully it will get better.
Remember , whichever power source is used, it will eventually be taxed to the Max.
I agree that some aspects of each potential initiative to reduce pollution from vehicles has issues. My take is the pollution issue is going to speed up the collective sorting out problems with cars etc because nature is a bit like driving in that if you turn the wheel a little bit it doesn't start off too different but in the end you crash because you end up in a different direction. If you push nature she will stay static for a long time but when she starts to move she will be slow but gather momentum and show you her real power ( which will dwarf us). If we stopped all harmful emissions today I think it will take as long a time for nature to stop going in the wrong direction as it did to start so transport and moving things around will change as climate forces the issue over car makers and drivers heads. I am revising how I work so I don't have to drive much at all - they blocked off the roads where I am and it took me 3 hours to deliver 12 miles away on a Sunday when the roads are relatively clear last week. Main roads are slower than horse and cart in London. If I could get a horse and somewhere safe to keep him/her it would make a lot more sense. Environmental migrants and transport issues will become popular topics as things develop.
 

TominDales

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There's no need for all that monitoring, since if your not delivering, then you're obviously not doing the work.

The issue is that employers want there 8 hours of time, irrespective of the actual work done.

I worked for a year at ICI, @1996, and for five days a month I would work from home doing month end analysis, reporting etc on time and revenue across UK and Dutch project teams. My manager at the time was far more progressive, and providing the report was in on time, she was happy, even if I only did 6 hours a day. She was of the mind-set that sometimes home working was far more productive than being in the office.
I think that is how homeworking during the pandemic is panning out. I work for a pretty progressive company, they have adapted to mixed home and work based working - we have a lot of laboratories, so you have to go in to do the physical work. I've noticed that people have switched to results focused rather than clock watching, we were pretty far down that path before covid with flexible working and various family friendly initiatives, but covid has taken it to another level.
Its amazingly helpful to be able to put the washing machine on over lunch, or to get the kids to and from school and fit work around it. Our experience is that work output has gone up as people are more focused on getting the right things done instead of being seen in the office or lab for its own sake.
Interestingly our company is basically a daughter of ICI, many of our sites are in ex ICI premises and probably 25% of our staff are ex ICI from various businesses.

The comment about bussing people in - to Plessey/Marconi - I think those days are gone, no longer are there gargantuan sites with thousands of people adding up spreadsheets by hand. These days work is very distributed so unless you are based in a city - as most work is, I suspect a distributed form of labour to work will be the future. A lot of home working via the NET and PC and the odd day in the office or lab communicating an doing physical stuff.
 

Spectric

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But if I can do it in 6 at home, then the firm want to see 2 more hours, which in actuality why businesses are stuck in the 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.
This has been the downside of the English way of working for decades, 8 hours work for 8 hours pay, but not always 8 hours work. The better approach especially if working from home is to work SMART. These are key parts of what your company expects from you, it is not just a statement from the boss but a two way agreement with support and they are specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time bound. This is what the business expects of you, you know that what is expected can be done, there is measurable criteria that will show if it has been done and a period of time has been allocated so working more flexable is possible because when you are in the flow you may work extra time to get things done to move your objective closer but then if you are having a day where you just cannot get things going then leave it till later, so long as you deliver within the time frame. This puts you in charge of time management so you nolonger are working a fixed period each day.
 

Terry - Somerset

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I happened to meet four of my nephews today, all of whom are fairly high achieving individuals in their 30s, and we got on to the subject of work from home.

Their general consensus was that most of the normal 9-5 day is taken up with back to back zoom meetings. Often these cover the most trvial of issues as they can no longer simply walk across an office or chat by the coffee machine.

This leaves the "thinking" and actual work (report writing, analysis etc) to the evening. Overall work days are far longer than when office based.

Clearly they need to be more disciplined in organising their time - perhaps to allow time during the day for thinking and tasks, and actually say "no" on occassion. FOMO (fear of missing out) dominates as if you don't participate you risk being marginalised.

It's easy when retired (as I am) to be clever about how they should manage themselves, but at that stage in their careers they are understandably concerned about money, promotion, future prospects etc. The working environment for a 35 year old today is very different from that which existed when I was 35 three decades ago!
 

NikNak

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Test drove the new Mazda MX30 yesterday.... love the look of it and it had some really nice features (mirrors pointed downward when you select reverse) but... errr no thanks :cautious: stupid doors, VERY limited range, not user friendly.... next..!!
 

D_W

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Test drove the new Mazda MX30 yesterday.... love the look of it and it had some really nice features (mirrors pointed downward when you select reverse) but... errr no thanks :cautious: stupid doors, VERY limited range, not user friendly.... next..!!
Mazda can't be expected to build a good ev when they can't build a good ICE car.
 

D_W

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I happened to meet four of my nephews today, all of whom are fairly high achieving individuals in their 30s, and we got on to the subject of work from home.

Their general consensus was that most of the normal 9-5 day is taken up with back to back zoom meetings. Often these cover the most trvial of issues as they can no longer simply walk across an office or chat by the coffee machine.

This leaves the "thinking" and actual work (report writing, analysis etc) to the evening. Overall work days are far longer than when office based.

Clearly they need to be more disciplined in organising their time - perhaps to allow time during the day for thinking and tasks, and actually say "no" on occassion. FOMO (fear of missing out) dominates as if you don't participate you risk being marginalised.

It's easy when retired (as I am) to be clever about how they should manage themselves, but at that stage in their careers they are understandably concerned about money, promotion, future prospects etc. The working environment for a 35 year old today is very different from that which existed when I was 35 three decades ago!
It's more likely that they are just working more and they weren't as productive as they thought when working at the office. We track time and revenue in my office...there has just been more work to do since shutdown and the revenue and time matches what it feels like. Meetings with clients have been relegated to zoom and other similar formats leaving the core meeting time the same but erasing hours of transit to various locations, meaning you can cover a meeting and still get in a full normal work day.

Chatter at the cooler in my office is never work related, and that aspect (pleasantries with each other) has suffered. Fastest way to get people at work to leave the kitchen is to go into it and start talking about work.
 

Ollie78

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Test drove the new Mazda MX30 yesterday.... love the look of it and it had some really nice features (mirrors pointed downward when you select reverse) but... errr no thanks :cautious: stupid doors, VERY limited range, not user friendly.... next..!!
My 2002 Nissan has mirrors that do that.
 
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