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Lons

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Very different in what way? Perception? Performance? Cost? They're built on the same platform and indeed share a lot of components.
All of that.

Because you actually asked that question my assumption is you haven't driven either or both so maybe you should try that before saying they're the same Bill.

Just to add to that Bill if you get the chance for one of those experience days it's worth trying an R8 around a circuit, I did that as well a few years ago in one of the big V8s and it's quite an experience.
 

billw

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Just to add to that Bill if you get the chance for one of those experience days it's worth trying an R8 around a circuit, I did that as well a few years ago in one of the big V8s and it's quite an experience.
I used to have a DB7 Vantage and even I admit that was mostly a really expensive and rusty Jaguar-Ford hybrid.

But yes, press the starter button and it affirms you've reached motoring nirvana, oh and the fact that people move out of the way and put their thumbs up. None of that wrist action you get driving a Fezza.

Track days - Lotus Elise, Lotus Exige, Lotus 340R. Way more fun on a track than the road.
 

DBT85

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Yeah I thought that Roger but didn't reply as there's plenty of prior evidence he knows exactly what he's saying.
I do wish this xenforo forum would add the feature another forum I use has where not only can you ignore people, but you never actually see that they were there at all.

Saying that, this forum only just got a facelift out of the dark ages so I can;t wish for too much all at once!
 

DBT85

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I used to have a DB7 Vantage and even I admit that was mostly a really expensive and rusty Jaguar-Ford hybrid.

But yes, press the starter button and it affirms you've reached motoring nirvana, oh and the fact that people move out of the way and put their thumbs up. None of that wrist action you get driving a Fezza.
That's odd. Its saying I said that. But I never said that!

My S2000 has astarter button but they were not smart enough to do it like our more modern cars 🤣 Beat of a car though.
 

billw

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My S2000 has astarter button but they were not smart enough to do it like our more modern cars 🤣 Beat of a car though.
My point was that shared platforms are very common! Oh, most of the DB7's dashboard switches were from Volvo, although I suspect the start button wasn't one of them lol
 

Lons

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Track days - Lotus Elise, Lotus Exige, Lotus 340R. Way more fun on a track than the road.
Oh I'm not so sure about that a quiet safe country road at the right time of day can be a lot of fun as long as you're sensible where you try it, those days are gone in my case though I drove an Elise on damp country roads and nearly put it in the ditch. :oops:
Yeah track days are great fun but Lotus are more of a handful than an Audi R8 with auto box and AWD.
I also had a go in a DB8 though only 4 laps but it's one of those if you need to ask the running costs you can't afford it, I can't :D
 

Blackswanwood

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And I do have one question for the pro-EV folk....what is the main driver for going EV ?
I’m not sure if I would identify as being Pro-EV Roger but I probably am as I do think they are an opportunity to help clean up the planet. Equally though I do love cars and will mourn the loss of the purr and roar of a good petrol engine.

The following gives some interesting insight into how opinions are changing.

 

billw

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I drove an Elise on damp country roads and nearly put it in the ditch. :oops:
Well I can say I've seen that happen a few times :LOL:

They were all bonkers on the road too, I got pulled over by the rozzers once for "accelerating too fast and scaring the old man in the inside lane". My first two questions were which bit of the highway code mentions acceleration rates, and can I see the witness statement from "the old man".
 

Lons

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My point was that shared platforms are very common! Oh, most of the DB7's dashboard switches were from Volvo, although I suspect the start button wasn't one of them lol
I would agree with that point but it isn't what you said, maybe just choice of words?

" if you see an Audi R8 it's basically an Audi TT with a body kit. "
 

billw

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I would agree with that point but it isn't what you said, maybe just choice of words?

" if you see an Audi R8 it's basically an Audi TT with a body kit. "
Yes, that point was a bit flippant, but they do share a lot of components.
 

Droogs

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My S2000 has astarter button but they were not smart enough to do it like our more modern cars 🤣 Beat of a car though.
I remember way back when I took my mate to the honda dealer in Edinburgh for a test drive of an S2000 he wanted to buy after getting his retention bonus fm the army. Funniest thing I ever saw was when they came back. My mate got out the car turned to me and he was genuinely the closest to an albino i have ever seen. He collected the car the following thursday
 

DBT85

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I remember way back when I took my mate to the honda dealer in Edinburgh for a test drive of an S2000 he wanted to buy after getting his retention bonus fm the army. Funniest thing I ever saw was when they came back. My mate got out the car turned to me and he was genuinely the closest to an albino i have ever seen. He collected the car the following thursday
haha. Yeah I don't drive mine nearly near the limit. The amount of them left decreases every year when people pimp them out or hide them in hedges.

Still amusing going around a corner at 60 with a passenger where in my Superb we'd be doing 45. It just pivots around you. Not had much use since the sprog was born. This year was going to be better with her in nursery more but covid put paid to that!
 

Rorschach

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That really is grossly offensive towards Droogs since you have absolutely no idea about his personal circumstances. But then, hey, does a leopard change his spots.

Back on Ignore you go.
Really rather sad to unblock me just to write a nasty comment.
 

Rorschach

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Yeah I thought that Roger but didn't reply as there's plenty of prior evidence he knows exactly what he's saying.
Makes a change for you to keep quiet when there is an opportunity to attack me.
 

GuitardoctorW7

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Why oh why are Hydrogen fuel cells being ignored? They re-fuel like petrol quickly, same range as diesel, and produce water as waste. I had a cab ride the other month in a Toyota that ran on Hydrogen and it was brilliant.
 

Rorschach

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Why oh why are Hydrogen fuel cells being ignored? They re-fuel like petrol quickly, same range as diesel, and produce water as waste. I had a cab ride the other month in a Toyota that ran on Hydrogen and it was brilliant.

I hope this could be changed though, I see Hydrogen cars as a much more viable alternative to battery EV's, from a purely practical point of view.
 

MusicMan

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Hydrogen fuel cells are by no means ignored. For heavy transport (lorries, trains, fixed-base things like cabs) they will probably be the solution. But they will not be effective in reducing CO2 emissions until hydrogen is made from renewable energy and water electrolysis or some chemically equivalent process (on which there is much research). At present it is made from oil, with less overall efficiency than is used in generating electric power for charging batteries. For general use it will require a huge distribution network to be built. Possibly that could be done by changing our gas grid from natural gas to hydrogen, which would also solve the immense problem of home heating in a low-carbon way.

I actually think that ammonia is a better bet for heavy transport, as it has almost as much energy density as hydrogen, is safer, and has simpler containment.

The Baxter article is a good summary.
 

Spectric

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Hi all

Most manufacturers will use a given floorpan with several top hat variants because it reduces cost and the same with powertrains, many base engines are shared between manufacturers simply because of the enormous cost of going it alone. Good example here is the PSA diesel that Ford used in many of it's products and part of the deal was PSA used their V6. So when you buy based on the badge you don't always get what you expect, and is really the same for woodworking machinery and much else.

I cannot ever see Hydrogen being pumped through the gas network or become a common fuel because of it's safety implications, although in some ways it is safer than petroleum because as a gas it should disperse faster than a liquid and as a result be less likely to produce an explosive situation. Unfortunately sods law will become involved.
 

Droogs

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@Spectric unfortunately people become involved may be more apt.
The markets will probably end up being like this from what I can surmise:

Personal transport ...........................BEV
Public Road Transport.....................Hydrogen or H/btty hybrid as is already being used for some city bus routes
................................................................ BEV for innercity mini bus types
Haulage................................................Hydrogen
Courier ................................................BEV they don't do more than 70 miles a day on average
Campers/Leisure .............................Eventually a Hydrogen/BEV hybrid but until then ICE
 

Terry - Somerset

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I can see the possible benefits of hydrogen for some applications - eg: heavy transport, or where range is genuinely critical. But it is not clear how it is generally better than battery tech.

Electricity is generated; which is used to "crack" hydrogen from H2O; which is then used to generate electricity by combining with O2. Efficiency losses are inherent in the process.

Moving the energy from creation to point of use requires an infrastructure. For electricity - cables, transformers, line losses etc; for hydrogen - compression, storage cylinders, distribution (probably on road) etc.

Perhaps H could be a by-product of excess power production (wind blows too much!) and a means of storage - but how do storage costs compare with extra batteries or using EV batteries connected to the grid to match supply to demand.

A much better understanding (certainly by me) is needed before any firm conclusions can be drawn.
 
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