Dying table saw, time to replace with a new......

[Sachakins]

Hi,
OK, time for you to have a chuckle then on to business in hand
My 2004 Performance Pro 10" ( yes the original B&Q one) Cue the chuckles, laughter and disbelief.
It is final getting beyond usable, it's been fettled, tinkered, fixed adjusted, and finally kicked and sworn at for its last time.

My preference would have been the Axminster Craft AC216TS 216mm Table Saw, except that I really need a 10" blade size, as I use various sled jigs, and lose to much cutting height.

The budget is around £500 maxish. Need to mount it on mobile cart, so max table height no more than 825mm, level to my bench. I don't do large flat work, but do cut 3 to 5 " hard woods, but not big lengths. Most work is for turning blanks, segments etc.

My Needs, 10" min, compact, quiet, accurate, standard slots and cast iron top.
My wants, ability to purchase add ons as required, ie good mitre gauge, jigs etc.
My wishes, that I had a bigger budget, but life gives you what get.

I know the law changed end of 2019, limiting the ratio of blade size to table area, hence the rise in the 216mm table saws.

So is there anything you can suggest to match the Craft AC216TS 216mm Table Saw but in the 250mm plus range?
Thanks.

 

[Doug71]

I know the law changed end of 2019, limiting the ratio of blade size to table area, hence the rise in the 216mm table saws.

Never heard of that?

 

[Sachakins]

Hi Doug71.
Just checked through regs quickly, couldn't find anything, so it's either a proposal I've read, a USA publication, tied into their on going SawStop legislation proposal.

So apologies for jumping the gun on it being a current new eu legislation. Rather I should have said there are ideas kicking round to limit saw size ratios.

 

[Sachakins]

There may be a 10" version on the horizon later in the year????

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Have a look at the axminster 216ts with its sliding table accessory to replace some/all of your jigs. I don't use any sleds now, and everything is more accurate because of it.

You may still need the bigger blade, or sleds depending on which jigs you need, but there again you may get away with it.

Just a thought...

 

[Sachakins]

Good idea Neophyte, I'll check that out. Thanks

 

[sunnybob]

The smaller blade is an american thing, related to the size of the table.

If you can find an older de walt 745 with the 10" blade (new one with smaller blade is 7485 I believe), it meets all of your needs (except quiet, because it isnt) and the fence is amazingly good and will not need replacing.

 

[Doug71]

The smaller blade is an american thing, related to the size of the table.

Now I understand why in America they don't use a blade guard or push stick, they don't use a riving knife but do use a full length fence and they mess around with homemade sleds and jigs instead of buying a proper slider, it's because they have the ratio of blade size to table size correct so nothing bad can happen #-o #-o #-o

 

[Sachakins]

Also why they frequently used stacked/dado blades, which is "outlawed" here due to the need to remove the guard, which I think is b0110x, as with some thought you can actually still use a dado blade and guard. But to stop this, the powers that be have ensured we in EU can only have short arbours, negating the chance of using stacked/dado blades.
That aside, legislative action is there for our safety, so shouldn't be ignored either.
However, making a machine foolproof, only leads to the development of better fools!!

 

[Sachakins]

The smaller blade is an american thing, related to the size of the table.

If you can find an older de walt 745 with the 10" blade (new one with smaller blade is 7485 I believe), it meets all of your needs (except quiet, because it isnt) and the fence is amazingly good and will not need replacing.

Agree, but they are rarer the rocking horse doo dah, they do the 7491/7492 now as the replacement for the 745, but it's now around £730. ( Think the 7492 is the E.U. market and 7491 sameish, but non E.U. Version)

Looked around fleaBay, Preloved, news now etc and nothing within 50 miles worthy of a bid at present.

 

[MikeJhn]

Dado blades are not outlawed in the UK, look at the HSE web site where they show the correct guard for using one.

 

[Trevanion]

Dado blades are not outlawed in the UK, look at the HSE web site where they show the correct guard for using one.

Yep, so long as it comes to a stop within the ten-second parameter and is properly guarded with something like shaw spring guards it's totally legal.

The stopping is the kicker though which confuses people about the legality, there's a lot of weight in Dado Blades/Trenchers/Adjustable Groovers/Whatever you wanna call them so it becomes a bit complicated when it comes to stopping the inertia. In an ideal world, you would want the whole trencher pinned in place to the spindle so it cannot undo the left-handed spindle nut under DC braking, but this isn't a problem if you're willing to flout the HSE and just let it run down for a minute which doesn't really matter too much in a hobby workshop, it becomes a problem in a professional workspace with employees.

As for European saws having short spindles, they're catching up and many like Felder are offering long spindles now. I would hazard a guess that the lower end manufacturers aimed at hobbyists wouldn't want to advertise the fact their machine could take a groover though as it would be a nightmare for lawsuits should anything happen.

People always say that Dado blades are hard to get a hold of in Britain (that's how you know someone has spent too much time watching American gadget pushing videos!) and that's mainly down to the fact that they're pretty rubbish really and people prefer the tungsten carbide adjustable groovers for not much more cash.

 

[MikeJhn]

There is also a Polish saw blade manufacture that makes wide tooth blades with a standard blade width to fit the standard arbour, there is a link on the topic102284.html thread, about ten pages in.

 

[wsb1207]

Dado blades are not outlawed in the UK, look at the HSE web site where they show the correct guard for using one.

Yep, so long as it comes to a stop within the ten-second parameter and is properly guarded with something like shaw spring guards it's totally legal.

The stopping is the kicker though which confuses people about the legality, there's a lot of weight in Dado Blades/Trenchers/Adjustable Groovers/Whatever you wanna call them so it becomes a bit complicated when it comes to stopping the inertia. In an ideal world, you would want the whole trencher pinned in place to the spindle so it cannot undo the left-handed spindle nut under DC braking, but this isn't a problem if you're willing to flout the HSE and just let it run down for a minute which doesn't really matter too much in a hobby workshop, it becomes a problem in a professional workspace with employees.

As for European saws having short spindles, they're catching up and many like Felder are offering long spindles now. I would hazard a guess that the lower end manufacturers aimed at hobbyists wouldn't want to advertise the fact their machine could take a groover though as it would be a nightmare for lawsuits should anything happen.

People always say that Dado blades are hard to get a hold of in Britain (that's how you know someone has spent too much time watching American gadget pushing videos!) and that's mainly down to the fact that they're pretty rubbish really and people prefer the tungsten carbide adjustable groovers for not much more cash.

Is there a recommended speed for the groover blades or would they be ok in most table saws?

 

[Sachakins]

Well the saw finally blew up with a whiff of burning, a bit of blue smoke, stripped down and bearing collapsing had threw armature into motor, damaging electrics, so now RIP (Resting in Pieces) in skip.
Decided i couldn't justify £500 plus for how much it gets used, so went for the 10" Scheppach, HS105.
TBH its been really good, changed to Freud blade as already had it, but good to go out of the box, and only £205 from FFX via ebay, which had a 20% discount on offer at the time, was on for £256 at FFX direct at that time and free delivery to.