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Dust inhalation

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Kalimna

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I think that part of the reason you havent come across many woodworkers with adverse health issues secondary to wood use is that such illnesses tend to hit later on in life, and they tend to come along slowly. Nasal/pharyngeal cancer is essentially a disease of workplace exposure to dusts. In much the same way that lung cancer would effectively cease to exist without smoking. Of course, there are several other respiratory illnesses associated with exposure to dusts, emphysema, pneumoconniosis, bronchiectasis to name but three, so it isnt just cancer.

I also suspect that part of the reason you worded your original post the way you did is, to paraphrase the popular media, "bleedin' elf n safety gorn mad, innit?". So, in some ways, the risks have been exaggerated, but that doesnt mean they arent there. I think your last sentence is probably spot on. I have never worked in a commercial workshop environment, but can quite safely say that my own workshop is woefully inadequate with regards to dust and sound exposure reduction... My shiny new filtered full--face-mask arrived yesterday and I am quite keen to use it. The days of blowing various shades of brown and red wood-dust stained debris from my nose are hopefully gone!

Cheers,
Adam

P.S. davic - here is the mask I went for (as it too has different filters that can be applied), but it has the added advantage of a face shield.
http://www.thesafetysupplycompany.co.uk ... d3XKEBsKrs

I got mine from ebay, and was a bit cheaper though. It fits a treat and makes the face feel very secure.
 

doctor Bob

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No skills":345ltu47 said:
Good luck? better DNA, who knows?

As somebody that's suffering from an as yet un-diagnosed respiratory problem I am envious, but I do know that getting sick from being exposed to carcinogenic substances or terrible conditions for varying amounts of time is certainly not pinapples.

I'm told that my x-rays are clear, had they told me that while my lungs were in pain (again) or I had got to the point where I could not walk and talk without seriously running out of breath (again) I'm sure I would of told them they were talking pinapples.

So heres hoping for asthma or an allergy (or even both) or something else non deadly and manageable - heres hoping for a new job in a less deadly place, at the age of 36 I really hope its not something nasty - I do certainly know its not pinapples.
you're calling it a deadly space, you have said the X rays are clear, it may be asthma as you say, I understand you concern and health worries but how do you know it's a deadly space? Surely we are all on death row if thats the case.

Don't get me wrong I know dust isn't good but surely we can't just say workshops are deadly.
 

doctor Bob

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Random Orbital Bob":3vl9az3b said:
I think we're saying workshops are "risky" and people would be sensible to manage that risk. That's all
I agree, but is it exaggerated against life other risks, smoking, drinking, general pollution etc

I have a spray shop as well, here we have much more stringent laws ..... surely if dust was as deadly the same laws would apply in a workshop.
 

davic

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Kalimna":386t0gzt said:
I think that part of the reason you havent come across many woodworkers with adverse health issues secondary to wood use is that such illnesses tend to hit later on in life, and they tend to come along slowly. Nasal/pharyngeal cancer is essentially a disease of workplace exposure to dusts. In much the same way that lung cancer would effectively cease to exist without smoking. Of course, there are several other respiratory illnesses associated with exposure to dusts, emphysema, pneumoconniosis, bronchiectasis to name but three, so it isnt just cancer.

I also suspect that part of the reason you worded your original post the way you did is, to paraphrase the popular media, "bleedin' elf n safety gorn mad, innit?". So, in some ways, the risks have been exaggerated, but that doesnt mean they arent there. I think your last sentence is probably spot on. I have never worked in a commercial workshop environment, but can quite safely say that my own workshop is woefully inadequate with regards to dust and sound exposure reduction... My shiny new filtered full--face-mask arrived yesterday and I am quite keen to use it. The days of blowing various shades of brown and red wood-dust stained debris from my nose are hopefully gone!

Cheers,
Adam

P.S. davic - here is the mask I went for (as it too has different filters that can be applied), but it has the added advantage of a face shield.
http://www.thesafetysupplycompany.co.uk ... d3XKEBsKrs

I got mine from ebay, and was a bit cheaper though. It fits a treat and makes the face feel very secure.
In all seriousness, is that a bit of overkill? I mean do you wear it at all times? I'd be interested to know. I use paper ones for sanding but half the time I cant be bothered :(
 

Kalimna

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davic - I dont think it is overkill, simply because I can now attach different filters depending on what I am doing (sanding/routing/turning or spraying - something I havent done yet but will do once my guitars get built!), and I find that wearing contact lenses means that the slightest bit of wayward dust can be very irritating, and that is something that safety specs/goggles dont cope with very well for me. If I had the spare cash, I would go for a powered version that has air blown into the mask. I probably wouldnt wear it at all times, but I will from now on if I am doing any power sanding, spraying or turning.

Cheers,
Adam
 

No skills

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you're calling it a deadly space, you have said the X rays are clear, it may be asthma as you say, I understand you concern and health worries but how do you know it's a deadly space? Surely we are all on death row if thats the case.

Don't get me wrong I know dust isn't good but surely we can't just say workshops are deadly.


I can only comment on my own experiences in my own places of work, I cant really pass judgement on others - opinions yes, but fact no. IMO the human body tolerates damage/abuse in a remarkable way - but will only take so much before negative reaction, be it in a small way or worse.

How do I know my work place is deadly/dangerous/dung? it passes the duck test. Having worked for a large multinational company for 10 years (not in a workshop environment) and then moved on to smaller firms and eventually where I am now I am amazed at the difference in attitudes towards H&S and employee health/well being - going from excellent to frankly terrible is a shock, but in a strange way something you get used to.

One thing you all seem to be assuming is that all companies/employers are playing by the rules and laws set, they are not. If you are a responsible employer doing your best to look after the welfare of your employees then good on you - hopefully the rest will disappear - but let me get a new job first :)
 

promhandicam

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This document from the HSE might be worth reading. Interesting to note that MR MDF probably doesn't contain formaldehyde and so has another advantage over the cheap stuff in addition to being easier to finish. That said even the MDF containing formaldehyde doesn't seem to be that dangerous.

FWIW, I only use a mask when I'm spraying and rely on good dx for my machines, both stationary and portable.

Steve
 

Random Orbital Bob

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doctor Bob":2809wrbr said:
Random Orbital Bob":2809wrbr said:
I think we're saying workshops are "risky" and people would be sensible to manage that risk. That's all
I agree, but is it exaggerated against life other risks, smoking, drinking, general pollution etc

I have a spray shop as well, here we have much more stringent laws ..... surely if dust was as deadly the same laws would apply in a workshop.
Its obvious that you take the dust management seriously Doc....You have great extraction and those 3M style masks are really good quality (I also have one for ultra dusty jobs like power sanding bowls on the lathe). I think it probably only appears exaggerated here on this forum because we're always banging on about it :) It's just that every time it comes up, people will volunteer their views quite vociferously. Perhaps debates like this do help to give it some perspective? The high's and the low's get aired and at least people get better informed. It certainly isn't in the same league as smoking that's for sure :)

I had the considerable misfortune to be in A&E yesterday after a suspected heart incident that turned out to be a false alarm......it doesn't half make you think about the next Cornish pasty you bump into with a pint in each hand :) I guess I'm saying it probably doesn't do any harm to scare the rubbish out of people from time to time to get the message across....equally, it has to be balanced.
 

devonwoody

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We are all at risk of respiratory complaints. I was born to a smokers atmosphere from birth and myself for the first 50 years. I lived and worked in London and my shirt collars were dirty at the end of the day, from 21 years of age I lived and worked from a motor car at some capacity or other until 55.

I got seriously interested in hobby woodwork from the age of 65 and for the past 11 years.
I got diagnosed with a lung disease this year COPD. What could I expect.

Others have lived in dust free situations and have suffered a lung condition earlier.

Still done better than my ancestors tho.
 

doctor Bob

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Random Orbital Bob":28o3n39n said:
I had the considerable misfortune to be in A&E yesterday after a suspected heart incident that turned out to be a false alarm......it doesn't half make you think about the next Cornish pasty you bump into with a pint in each hand :)

I agree, I've been running and rowing for the last 12 months, if I run for 50 minutes I burn about 600-700 calories, about the same as a large costa coffee with extras, 50 minutes of hard work for a coffee ..... I think not.
 

davic

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doctor Bob":o2iy0pzp said:
Just so it's clear, I do wear a mask for dusty jobs

This type


but I don't wear it all the time
What I dont get with these is that they are 28 day masks? Does that mean you have to chuck them after 28 days, can use them 28 times or something else??
 

Graham Orm

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davic":15xpoa8o said:
doctor Bob":15xpoa8o said:
Just so it's clear, I do wear a mask for dusty jobs

This type


but I don't wear it all the time
What I don't get with these is that they are 28 day masks? Does that mean you have to chuck them after 28 days, can use them 28 times or something else??
If you wear one, towards the end of the 28 day cycle you will get bad tempered and are to be avoided. You'll find that you eat a lot of chocolate and that your partner can do nothing right. You will burst into tears at the drop of a hat, and notice that every other motorist is a complete silly person and should be screamed abuse at. Your shopping trolley will have a wonky wheel, the checkout girl is an imbecile and will be deliberately slow, and when you get home you will notice 'that F****N shed smell' in the lounge again.
 

davic

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Grayorm":1qe8mug0 said:
davic":1qe8mug0 said:
doctor Bob":1qe8mug0 said:
Just so it's clear, I do wear a mask for dusty jobs

This type


but I don't wear it all the time
What I don't get with these is that they are 28 day masks? Does that mean you have to chuck them after 28 days, can use them 28 times or something else??
If you wear one, towards the end of the 28 day cycle you will get bad tempered and are to be avoided. You'll find that you eat a lot of chocolate and that your partner can do nothing right. You will burst into tears at the drop of a hat, and notice that every other motorist is a complete silly person and should be screamed abuse at. Your shopping trolley will have a wonky wheel, the checkout girl is an imbecile and will be deliberately slow, and when you get home you will notice 'that F****N shed smell' in the lounge again.
Sounds like a pretty normal day for me, apart from getting cross with the checkout lady. I was more interested in the viability of the mask though.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, I dont have a partner either :(
 

powertools

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I asked a while ago on the forum what was the point of those dust filters hung from the workshop ceiling, in my opinion they are useless if you are trying to protect yourself from the fine dust.
My hobby woodwork workshop is small but all my machines and hand held power tools are below my face and my solution to the dust problem is to plan my work so that I create the dust in 1 session and do all finishing off in another.
All machines and hand held power tools are connected to a chip collector to remove as much as possible at source but I also have an extractor at floor level that I turn on when I am creating a lot of dust. This creates a down draft and changes the air in the workshop every 2 minutes and sucks the fine dust down so that it never gets to face level.
Yes it can be cold in the winter but I have thermal overalls to compensate, in the summer it has a cooling effect. I would rather do that than work in a dust mask all day I would no longer enjoy my hobby.
 

Graham Orm

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davic":3nppzmqv said:
doctor Bob":3nppzmqv said:
Just so it's clear, I do wear a mask for dusty jobs

This type


but I don't wear it all the time
What I dont get with these is that they are 28 day masks? Does that mean you have to chuck them after 28 days, can use them 28 times or something else??
I should have added, I also wondered and was hoping someone would give the real reason.
 

promhandicam

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The 3M 4251 breathing mask is a medium duration, maintenance free, disposable half mask, providing effective protection from organic vapour and particulates.

Replace after 28 days or when damaged, breathing resistance increases or breakthrough occurs, whichever occurs first.
So, how many people, paranoid about dust inhalation replace their masks at least every 28 days? At around £20 a pop, after a couple of years you could have afforded to buy a decent dust extraction system which is the prefered method according to the HSE of dealing with dust.
 

promhandicam

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powertools":37x4uk45 said:
. . . All machines and hand held power tools are connected to a chip collector . . .
A chip collector, unless fitted with plastic waste sacks and a fine filter will be the biggest cause of fine airborne dust in a workshop. Workshop air cleaners are quite effective but to be effective need to be run constantly and need to be cleaned regularly - for which a good workshop vac with adequate filtration and/or an airline outside whilst wearing a mask are needed.
 
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