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Dust Extraction

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Anonymous

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Further to the posts in the B&Q thread earlier regarding dust extraction.

I have decided to get the Record DX4000 drum extractor (80 litres) from screwfix. I intend to plumb it in via soil pipe, blast gates and reducers ( where needed)

It has a 100mm outlet with two 1kw motors which are apparently not too noisy. If I had had the room I would have got the DX5000. It has the same specs but has the facility to take a 200litre bag. If I find I am emptying the drum too often I will take up the idea of introducing a large bin into the plumbed system but residing outside,

This should take care of my thicknesser and planer, which was a worry with the smaller vacs discussed.
Having the option to use both motors or just one it should have the power to deal with the other outlets.( router table , table saw,band saw and various hand held power tools.

According to a review in the woodworker and in our own reviews( dx5000, same spec) it should deal with the other stuff okay. I still have my wicks vac for general cleaning.
 

Noel

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Bill,

I've the DX5000 and very pleased with it. When I bought it I thought it had induction motors so thought it was well noisey but after a few hours I got used to it. Running with the TS, thicknesser etc it's not that bad. I only use it with the machinery and, perhaps out of habit or a perceived necessity, I always have both motors running. Perhaps if used with handheld stuff one motor would suffice. Very powerful and when I eventually have everything plumbed in it will be more than adequate.
One small problem I noticed was that the wall mounting plate on the bracket was a bit flimsy so put in an extra couple of bolts to beef it up.

Rgds

Noel
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks Noel.

I should get it today so I will need to work out the plumbing. Been thinking on plastic drain pipes etc or maybe the 63mm dek accessories package from axminster. May well have to fit that outside dustbin idea into the equation. I am totally strapped for space now so every new thing introduced causes total shop turmoil in fitting it in :lol:
 

Noel

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Bill,

The port on the DX4000 are 100mm so soil/waste pipe is ideal. The Ax kit wouldn't really be worth getting as it's only 68mm. IMHO.

Rgds

Noel
 

Scrit

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Yeah

With DX bigger is better when it comes to pipe diameter. With small pipes you lose a lot more power overcoming frictional loss against the sides of the waste pipe than you do with larger ones (it's a function of cross section over circumference), so 4in is the minimum to go for especially with things like P/Ts which creat large chips.

Scrit
 
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Anonymous

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Yep, I have 100mm ports on my thicknesser and bandsaw but the others are various from 63mm ( outer) down to 38mm on the other staitonary tools.
If I maintain the 100mm on the pipes untill actual connection then get reducers where they connect. But should I get blastgates and do they fit on the pipe just before connection to the tool in which case they should be 100mm or on the machine outlet which are various sizes?

I got the dx4000 from screwfix yesterday but the plastic top was split :(

Ive arranged another one to be delivered today along with pickup of faulty one. I hope this is not another saga with screwfix developing :roll:
 

Scrit

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It's generaly easier to site your blastgates near to the machines - saves walking back and forth very time you switch a machine on. I'd stick to 100mm for everything (does anyone do smaller blast gates?) For a home-shop you don't really need the expense of buying-in blast gates as they are a relatively simple and cheap item to make. Take a look at this link http://benchmark.20m.com/articles/BlastGate/blastgatebuilding.html and you'll see what I mean. Plastic gates generally slide better than metal ones any way.

Scrit
 

Newbie_Neil

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Hi Billzee

The way Screwfix work is to get the item returned and go through a checking process in the warehouse and then eventually it will be input to the system and a credit issued. Apparently, when I was waiting for a replacement they had a backlog of returns.

It is only once this is issued that they will then despatch the replacement item. The last time this happened to me it took eight days!!! They don't tell you this when you first ring, they only say that they will get a replacement out to you as soon as possible.

Cheers
Neil
 
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Hi Neil
Being an old hand with screwfix and having suffered sometime ago with a plethora ( great word eh :lol: ) of faulty goods and returns, if i get faulty goods now ( as in this case), I demand a replacement for the next day, and they pick up the faulty goods on the same day.

They agree to this readily because previously they had to pay me handsomely in compensation, after a little arm twisting :wink: ) for problems they caused me.

Edit:Both the new one delivered and the faulty one picked up( different carrier)
 
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Anonymous

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OK, my initial findings with this unit.

I set it up and connected it to my thicknesser. Only ever having my old wickes vac which was useless for the thicknesser I don't have anything to compare it with but here goes.

I would consider this machine adequate or perhaps possibly proficent without being spectacular. It does remove the majority of shavings but some are left on the bed, not enough to be really annoying but not as good as I had expected given its power.

This is of course 'as good as it gets' because presumably when I attach plumbing for other machines it will not improve the suction.

Once I have rigged it out for that I'll report back with my findings :)

Edit: Incidently, although having supplied a damaged unit intially, well done to screwfix in picking up and delivering a new unit the 'NEXT' day.

A good recovery :)
 

Noel

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Bill,

Don't think there's much you can do to lift the chips lying on the bed of the thicknesser. With the DX5000 I get a few (sometimes more) left on the bed. Don't know what model you have but on mine and most others the collector hood is attached to the front of the cutter block carriage. This obviously lifts 99.9% of waste. But bear in mind that there is a awful lot of "unenclosed" space between the cutter carriage and the bed especially when passing thicker pieces of timber through. Certainly when planing thinner stock with the carriage practically sitting on the bed there's only the odd chip left behind. Enjoy your new purchase.

Rgds

Noel
 
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Anonymous

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Noel, Ive got the axminster ct330 which has the hood in the same place as you mention
Its a good point you make about the unenclosed space and this obviously has a bearing on shavings removal. As I say I'm reasonably happy, and in consideration of your point satisfied that the unit does a good job

Thanks also to scrit for the blastgate link
 

Alf

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The whole business of dust extraction is a mystery to me, but most of all the efficiency with which we should expect shavings to disappear up the 'ole. I'm not at all sure that my d/e is doing as well as it should, but I don't know how to tell. Is there a test that doesn't require some sort of scientific machinery or whathaveyou? Something on the lines of x volume of chippings should be removed in x length of time at a distance from the hose of x?

Sorry Billzee, not wanting to hijack your gloat (Congrats btw, and well done to Screwfix too. You must have put the fear of God into them :lol: ), but your post reminded me.

Cheers, Alf
 

Scrit

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If you fancy a good read on the subject I'd recommend the Taunton Press book "Woodshop Dust Control" by Sandor Nagyszalanczy. Alternatively look at Bill Pentz's site http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/Cyclone/Index.html which has more than the usual amount if information about dust collection, and is unusually informative and extremely well researched. Alternatively there is some useful stuff published in the Felder catalogue. Fundamentally it's all down to static pressure loss.....

And for those who are really interested if you want to do precise measurements you'll need a U-tube (or other) manometer and a magnehelic gauge (to measure pressure drop and flow, apparently)

Scrit
 

gidon

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Hi Alf,
This is very scientific answer so prepare yourself ...
But if you get a clear hose for your DE you can see those shavings shift and get a clearer idea whether it's working. I just have a Scheppach mv100 drum extractor with a 100mm (transparent) pipe, and connected to my p/t in thicknesser mode it seems to do a fairly good job. There's a few crumbs on the tables but I think they escape from the not so good seal where the DE attachment fits on.
On the other hand I'm not sure this thing does such a good job on my table saw with the finer dust - there seems to some dust hanging around the pipe which means that some dust isn't getting sucked in I guess.
By the way, I've realised that the very scientific method of holding your hand over the hose and switching on is not a good way of testing suck power!
Cheers
Gidon
 

Scrit

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gidon":3jh9ai8c said:
On the other hand I'm not sure this thing does such a good job on my table saw with the finer dust - there seems to some dust hanging around the pipe which means that some dust isn't getting sucked in I guess.
The problem could be either that your DX is not powerful enough, or that you may have things so well sealed that the DX can't accellerate the dust to the required speed (somewhere around 22 metres/sec I recall, although I woudn't take that as gospel).

Scrit
 

Alf

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Hmm, thanks for that chaps. I had wondered about the Nagy- er, Sandor book :wink: A whole book on dust control seemed, well, a bit boring to be honest. Maybe I might try and pursuade the local library to see if they can whistle up a copy. Getting a Felder catalogue may be too dangerous...

I have a bad feeling that I just have a lousy d/e. It's the Axminster WV1000, which is supposed to give you the best of both worlds. The phrase "master of none" springs to mind. Theoretically it can be used in a plumbed in system, which was my original intention, but with just a short length of hose it seems to struggle. Ho hum.

Cheers, Alf
 

Scrit

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Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't pronounce his name....

I've just taken a look at the spec. on the WV1000 and it doesn't really have a very high flow rate (195 m3/hr or approx. 115 cfm or cubic ft/min) which may well be the problem - even the small Kity/Elektra Beckum/Scheppach units all start at around 450cfm (or 600m3/hr in metric). The generally quoted figure for a table saw is around 350 to 450cfm and planers start at around that area as well (take a look on Bill Pentz's site for more exact figures). The heavier chips you get from a planer do need a lot of volume, but relatively little pressure drop which may be the root cause of your problem. I did make the mistake (?) of buying a Record RDX600i (a sort of smaller relative of the WV1000) and I was eventually so underwhelmed (I am occasionally a slow learner) that it now doubles as the teapot stand in the shop.

Regards

Scrit
 

Alf

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Scrit,

I think the phrase needed here is "Oh bother", or something like it anyway... :evil:

Now how on earth do I get another d/e in the budget, not to mention the workshop :?

Cheers, Alf
 

Midnight

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Seems I'm in the same boat as most here... less than happy with my dust collection. I thought that buying the biggest n baddest I could afford would be enough..... man.....was I ever wrong...
I donno about you guys..... but I'm getting tired.... loosing whole days that SHOULD be spent working IN the shop..... to work ON the shop instead.... hauling everything out.... vacuuming everything down only to have it as bad as ever a couple of days later.
Personally.... I'd LOVE to see manufacturers get their act together about this. Surely THEY know how much mess their machinery can generate.... and therefor what spec of system it's gonna take to clean up after em. What's more.. I'd love to see a practical representation of what the numbers mean.......in REAL terms....
I.E. a label on a chip extractor giving the max size of planer it can handle waste from.... with 100% efficiency.... "Not suitable for planers above 200mm"....... it's not rocket science...
I dare say that..... armed with the RIGHT info, we as a group could make more informed purchaces, buying extractors that CAN cope with our machnery. Surely that increase in units sold would soon bring the cost of these more expencive systems down.
I found this link helped a lot when it came to getting educated.... check it out...
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/ ... ement.html
 

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