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Dust extraction - advice requested

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UnicycleBloke

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I don't currently have any dust extraction. I do have a Trend Airshield Pro, but it is a bit cumbersome, and I don't wear it consistently. So I've been thinking it's about time I invested in my health a little better, and would appreciate any advice on what to get. I guess I could afford up £500 at a push, but would prefer to put some of that towards a bandsaw.

Camvac seem to come highly recommended, and I was looking at the GV286W. My first question is 4" or 2.5"? Most people seem to have 4". And I don't really know
what options to get with it. Just a hose and a funnel for the lathe would do I suppose.

I've also glanced at the Axminster NVD750, but it looks to have quite a small capacity for chip extraction. Maybe 35L would be fine.

So. What do you recommend? What should I avoid?

Many thanks.


Al
 

inaspin

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Hi Al

I think you are doing entirely the write thing, but there is a huge difference between a dust extractor and a chip extractor, the chips are not really going to hurt you it is the very fine dust particles that do the damage.

You need something which will filter down to at least one micron, Like you i have the air shield pro and have to confess to not always waring it but i can certainly tell when i have left it off.

I also have a microclene behind the lathe but they are not all they are cracked up to be, it soon clogs up and when you first start it up any dust that has settled in the surrounding area over night is immediately blown into the atmosphere there by pretty well defeating the object, despite cleaning and vaccing as thoughraly as i can around it.

My other device is a charnwood drum extractor which seems to do an ok job although i have had to build a box to keep it in to help reduce the noise, it would drive you mad screaming away all day.

This sort of follows on from another thread which i can't find now , but to come to the point and that is buy wisely and buy once, the initial outlay may be more than you wanted to spend, but it is better than making my mistakes, oh i also have a sip which is next door to useless.

Sorry i can,t reccomend a model for you but as you can see i am still trying to sort out a decent system myself, i will watch your thread with interest and see what some of the other guys reccomend as i know i will have to bite the bullet and spend some real cash.

Hope you get sorted out
Regards
Berns
 

beech1948

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I think the first thing to consider is what types of chippings or dust are you actually needing to extract.

A planer/thicknesser probably will produce the most waste material and needs at least 100mm system to clear chips. This is because of the need to move a lot of air to create suction to remove the chips. I have no experience of 62.5mm systems but have heard that they can clog up when used with a P/T so be warned.

Your choices typically are
1) A bag style collector which will handle chips well but let through a lot of dust. So any bag system will need to have a drop box or a Thien Separator added between the tool and the bag system to collect upto 92% of the dust as well as 100% of the chips
2) A cylinder system eg bigger Record/Camvac with at least 2 motors. These work well as a large hoover style but also benefit from a Thien Seperator...which is cheap to build yourself. About the only issues with Record/Camvac is that the steel container for the waste is a little small at about 80 liters and you get to fiddle with fussy filter replacements.
3) You could use a used DE machine eg bag type or Record/Camvac and add a Chems ( member here) Cyclone instead of the Thien Separator.

Option 1 is the cheapest if you buy a used DE ( bag type and at least 2hp) and will get you to 90% + a little bit extraction

Option 2 is maybe slightly more expensive and will get you to a good level of extraction

Option 3 I am unsure about as I have not priced it but it is not expensive and may get you to a little better extraction than Options 1&2.

Just be aware that any of these choices will work OK for you.

You might need a workshop vac as well if you do a lot of sanding and need to extract from small tools eg. Sanders, jig saw, circular saw and here a 62.5mm system will work well for the tiny chips and dust involved.

You will still need the mask though to get a few extra % protection.

Hope this is a help. The DE subject gets complicated quite quickly and I have tried to avoid long explanations and facts.

Al












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UnicycleBloke

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Hmm. Those look interesting, but I'd understood that it is best if I can get sub 1 micron particle extraction. I basically only generate dust from woodturning. My other activities are very short duration in comparison, and much less dusty. Chip extraction would be convenient, but I have a broom. I'm primarily concerned about my lungs. As you say, replacements are a little on the pricy side, and likely to be out of stock.

Never heard of a Thien Separator before. Looked it up. What a neat gadget!


Al
 

saffa

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Does anybody know if there are any low cost cyclone / fine filter dust extractors available in the uk. In the USA grizzly sells great combinations for 600/700 dollars. The only ones i have seen in uk are from axminster and they 4xi the price.

Any pointers.?
 

beech1948

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Complete cyclones are rare in the UK for Hobbyists. For some reason the prices are very high.

However have a look here and see what a member here is selling.
http://www.cyclonecentral.co.uk/. When combined with a DE like the one Johnf is selling on the forum, see message aboove, this will work well.

There are a few reviews on this site also.

Al
 

beech1948

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Complete cyclones are rare in the UK for Hobbyists. For some reason the prices are very high.

However have a look here and see what a member here is selling.
http://www.cyclonecentral.co.uk/. When combined with a DE like the one Johnf is selling on the forum, see message aboove, this will work well.

There are a few reviews on this site also.

Al
 

myturn

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The Camvacs are fine for direct extraction from a port on a tool but with a lathe that is not the case. You need a High Volume Low Pressure extractor with a funnel or hood behind the lathe which will extract the fine dust (and also your sandpaper if you don't hold onto it!)

I started with a Camvac and it was not at all effective, it is also very noisy and I only have the single-motor version. More motors and it would be even noisier.

I've kept the Camvac for planer, router, chop-saw etc, tools that have direct extraction ports, and it works fine for them.

I looked long and hard and eventually bought the Axminster UB801F which is dedicated to the lathe and attached to a Big Mouth extraction hood mounted behind the lathe on a setup that allows it to be moved anywhere and in any orientation along the lathe.

I also took the CK370Z fine filter cartridge with it. It works very well and has considerably reduced the dust flying around that was previously covering everything.

The UB801F is 1HP so won't overstretch your power supply if it is limited and you are running the extractor, lathe, lights, air-cleanerall together.

I can highly recommend this setup, or something similar.

The Airshield is your first line of defence though and you should persevere with it.
 

chipmunk

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I agree with Al about a 2 motor Camvac over a single motor unit.

Consider a wall-mounted Camvac with 2.5" ducting (Axminster sell a good kit with several blast gates) to allow multiple machine and floor cleaning connections. A silencer is easy to make for the Camvacs (a plywood box with a few bends inside is all you need - no obstructions though) especially if its wall mounted and is cheaper than the hose(s) chucked behind a cupboard that Camvac recommend. This will have a bigger capacity for cleaning up than a canister unit for not much more money and the 2.5" unit is slightly cheaper but most importantly the high air speed and turbulent flow in the plumbing keeps them debris free.

The HVLP set up Mick suggests IMHO will not remove the fine dangerous airborne dust (up to a few microns) unless you have the extractor outside or venting outside somehow or a much better filter which will restrict airflow.

HTH
Jon
 

myturn

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chipmunk":1xng4t10 said:
The HVLP set up Mick suggests IMHO will not remove the fine dangerous airborne dust (up to a few microns) unless you have the extractor outside or venting outside somehow or a much better filter which will restrict airflow.
The setup I have uses a 1 micron filter which, when used in conjunction with a Microclene located near the extractor, keeps the air plenty clean and is much more suitable for lathe extraction than the Camvacs which only take in anything that is directed into a very small area. My extractor moves a lot more air which takes a lot more of the fine dust into the hood.

For fine dust you don't need high pressure, and for lathe work you need to move a high volume of air.
 

chipmunk

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Hi Mick,
I agree with you about the 1 motor Camvacs but having tried both HVLP and a HPLV system based on a twin motor Camvac I know which I think does a better job.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one then, although there is probably more than one way to skin this particular cat.

Jon
 

UnicycleBloke

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Thanks for all the advice. There is more to this than I realised. I've gone for the wall mounted Camvac because it claims very good filtration. I suppose this may not be the end of the story, but it should be a good start.


Al
 

Ron Rutter

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Cyclones are easy to build & very effective. Check out the Bill Pentz site . Also, Wood magazine had a plan some years ago that was good-more compact. Go with 6"/150mm pipe if possible. High volume / low velocity picks up fines best. I built one of each for our seniors shop c?w drop boxes. There is hardly any dust in the bags in over a year.
A big plus for this set-up is that it keeps coarse stuff out of the fan!
Cheers. Ron.
 
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