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Dust / Chip Extraction

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Roberto Flintofski

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Hi All,

New here to all this forum stuff so hopefully you are all a happy cheery lot keeping safe & well in Lockdown ?

I have just bought a twin motor CamVac after doing a bit of research and wondered if any of you have any thoughts and comments ( hopefully suggestions / ideas for improvement ) I struggle with workshop space so was hoping to put the cam vac in the loft - Additional axminster big cyclone up there too and then have a 4'' 'drop off' soil pipe down into the workshop below to a sealed emptyible canister as per the photo ?

Do you think it would work ?
 

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Deadeye

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Sorry... I snagged the Return key too early!
Two issues:
1. The cyclone will still put out a (fairly small) amount of (fairly fine) dust. Where does it vent to?
2. Separately to dust venting in the loft, you are creating suction from the workspace to the loft and a pressure difference between them. Have you thought about heating in winter? Looks like you'd very efficiently heat your roof and chill your work space!
 

sunnybob

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Admittedly the camvac is quite powerful, but the higher you put it, the less its going to suck larger chips up that high.

What is the height difference? Anything above head height will reduce performance noticeably.
 

Doug B

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I’d just try it, I’m guessing if you are struggling for space your workshop isn’t that big so the ducting runs won’t be that long, I have a small camvac 2” inlet on a cyclone with a six metre hose & it sucks really well.
My main concern would be condensation forming on your duct work & camvac if you are extracting from a warm workshop into a cold roof space. That said if the set up works satisfactory then a couple of vents through the ceiling into an insulated box formed around the vac & ductwork would over come any condensation & lose of heat from the workshop when in use.
If you were to go down this route you would need to ensure the vents in the ceiling gave adequate air flow as a camvac gets quite warm in use. You could also attach a pipe directly to the camvac exhaust & duct this into the workshop, I’ve done this with mine as it quietens the vac & as it now exhausts under my bench it blows warm air round my feet :D
 

Roberto Flintofski

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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies,

I was going to run 2 -1/5'' vent pipes one from each of the motors venting to outside in the summer when I want to 'get rid of heat' and in a winter when its chilly drop them back down thru vents into the workshop ( never thought of round my feet but good idea - that's why I posted see good suggestions ! ) The loft always gets really hot as it is a seperate room so I guess in reality I need to add some form of air intake via 4'' vents too.

I had thought of using the Axminster Craft AC118CI Cyclone Interceptor with its own bin but liked the idea of the cyclone unit being 'hidden' and the only thing on view the collection bin ! as then I can use a taller thinner bin rather than small fat unit !
 

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Myfordman

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I'd fit the cyclone inside the workshop to save a number of possible issues mentioned above as well as the possibility of the outlet blocking under high volumes.
Use a clear/translucent outlet pipe so you can see any lack of flow problems. Remember that at anytime your cyclone stops spinning, then 100% the waste goes straight into the camvac. I have a capacitive proximity sensor alarm on my cyclone to alert me of any build up.
 

Stacey

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I had a old Axminster single stage unit that was being disposed of by a school, it sat in the workshop for 5 years then a few weeks ago I got off my buttocks and built a cyclone, run lots of 100mm duct (Screwfix), made blast gates and 3D printed all the adaptors for my tools and today I wired a remote switch into the contactor... Awesome!

IMG_7863.JPG

IMG_7851.JPG

IMG_7907.JPG

IMG_7887.JPG


So far I have five outlets on the back wall, and up onto the ceiling where I split into three, one for the thicknesser (when I get one), one for the table saw and one to the workbench for the other bandsaw.

I have not glued anything just in case, all the joints are sealed with the aluminium tape, the blast gates have a few self tapping screws just for added strength.

IMG_7906.JPG


All the reducers take the 100mm ducting down to 63mm.

Edit: if anyone want to know all the parts used and wants the £D files I am happy to supply.
 

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Inspector

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Stacey I know you put a lot of work in making your system but the straight Tee fittings are a flow killer. If you look at page 61 of http://www.lorencook.com/PDFs/Catalogs/ ... atalog.pdf chart 6a with a 1 to 1 ratio the Tee fitting is the equivalent of 125' of straight pipe. If you can find and replace them with a radiuses 90º Tee or a 45º branch fitting it will improve the flow, gathering more dust in the process. You can 3D print them since you have one.

Pete
 

PhilM

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Hi Roberto
I have the cyclone fitted directly onto the bin which I think is the best way, you can see what's going on.
20200508_192706-400.jpg

There is a release valve on the cyclone, a 5 minute job to make.
My Camvac is on a little platform next to it, the 'exhaust pipes' go into a homemade baffle box (not on photo), this is solely to cut down noise.
 

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Roberto Flintofski

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Oooo Blimey ..... thanks again, yes I had read to use 'branch joints / Y's for take off rather than T's making sure they flowed the right way to aid flow, all getting too technical with 'printed adapters' but Oh I wish as getting the right sizes for power tools is a nightmare !

Not seen any clear Cyclones with 4'' connections here in the UK only managed to find the Axminster metal one ( I thought very reasonably priced at £100 ) Rather large unit hence wanting to 'hide it'

Amended drawing for you all to have a look at and make suggestions

Thanks in advance Roberto
 

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RogerS

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I'm with 9fingers. Sticking that CamVac up in the loft will come back and bite you sooner or later. I also question the need in a small workshop to have all that pipework and blast gates. Over-engineered IMO. When I started out I used (and still do) a long flexible pipe and plugged it into whichever machine I was using.

How much dust and chips are you going to create anyway ? From your drawing I see just two machines. I'd not bother even with a cyclone in that scenario. And what's wrong with a broom for the floor? Just get a Camvac, a flexible pipe and spend the rest of your cash on tools !
 

DBT85

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I find moving a hose around between the various tool to be a tedium I would rather avoid. I might want to use the belt/disk sander, drill press, tracksaw, bandsaw etc and because they all pick random bloody sizes for their ports it becomes a pain. I also don't like having the pipe all over the place.

I want to do what Roberto has planned here (though without the loft) but will now probably wait until I build my actual permenant workshop.
 

RogerS

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DBT85":3umz9p2d said:
I find moving a hose around between the various tool to be a tedium I would rather avoid. I might want to use the belt/disk sander, drill press, tracksaw, bandsaw etc and because they all pick random bloody sizes for their ports it becomes a pain. I also don't like having the pipe all over the place.

I want to do what Roberto has planned here (though without the loft) but will now probably wait until I build my actual permenant workshop.
Curious to know how you're going to avoid using a tracksaw without a hosepipe all over the place ! Or how you will catch the dust from the drill press ...I think you'll be the first to do that. Also none of those tools that you list are suitable for the size ducting I think you might be considering or even the type of dust extraction you might be thinking of. I accept I could be wrong.
 

DBT85

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RogerS":1z7tyvi8 said:
DBT85":1z7tyvi8 said:
I find moving a hose around between the various tool to be a tedium I would rather avoid. I might want to use the belt/disk sander, drill press, tracksaw, bandsaw etc and because they all pick random bloody sizes for their ports it becomes a pain. I also don't like having the pipe all over the place.

I want to do what Roberto has planned here (though without the loft) but will now probably wait until I build my actual permenant workshop.
Curious to know how you're going to avoid using a tracksaw without a hosepipe all over the place ! Or how you will catch the dust from the drill press ...I think you'll be the first to do that. Also none of those tools that you list are suitable for the size ducting I think you might be considering or even the type of dust extraction you might be thinking of. I accept I could be wrong.
Have you honestly never seen any dx at a drill press?
 

Deadeye

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Stacey":nzun7kyd said:
I had a old Axminster single stage unit that was being disposed of by a school, it sat in the workshop for 5 years then a few weeks ago I got off my buttocks and built a cyclone, run lots of 100mm duct (Screwfix), made blast gates and 3D printed all the adaptors for my tools and today I wired a remote switch into the contactor... Awesome!

Edit: if anyone want to know all the parts used and wants the £D files I am happy to supply.

I'm curious about the economics of 3d printing. People seem to frequently say "I printed it" - which sounds great, but all the prices I see online would make it ridiculously expensive to print a blast gate or Y junction.
What are the real costs of printing a largish part like that?
 

mbartlett99

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Deadeye":2uvl4myo said:
Stacey":2uvl4myo said:
I had a old Axminster single stage unit that was being disposed of by a school, it sat in the workshop for 5 years then a few weeks ago I got off my buttocks and built a cyclone, run lots of 100mm duct (Screwfix), made blast gates and 3D printed all the adaptors for my tools and today I wired a remote switch into the contactor... Awesome!

Edit: if anyone want to know all the parts used and wants the £D files I am happy to supply.

I'm curious about the economics of 3d printing. People seem to frequently say "I printed it" - which sounds great, but all the prices I see online would make it ridiculously expensive to print a blast gate or Y junction.
What are the real costs of printing a largish part like that?
I'll be able to tell you in a few days - just got one specially for the duct work nonsense but its still in its box.
 

DBT85

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Deadeye":305t6g70 said:
Stacey":305t6g70 said:
I had a old Axminster single stage unit that was being disposed of by a school, it sat in the workshop for 5 years then a few weeks ago I got off my buttocks and built a cyclone, run lots of 100mm duct (Screwfix), made blast gates and 3D printed all the adaptors for my tools and today I wired a remote switch into the contactor... Awesome!

Edit: if anyone want to know all the parts used and wants the £D files I am happy to supply.

I'm curious about the economics of 3d printing. People seem to frequently say "I printed it" - which sounds great, but all the prices I see online would make it ridiculously expensive to print a blast gate or Y junction.
What are the real costs of printing a largish part like that?
If you're talking about per part, PLA filament runs about £30 a kilo from what little I just saw. So depending on the part and how solid it is/needs to be that's one cost. The cost of running it would need to be recorded with a smart plug or something.

I think often it's not even about the economy, its about getting the thing you need or want rather than something close and bodging around it. Fairly easily you could make any hose adapter you wanted for example. Just adjust a few numbers for pipe sizes in something like fusion 360 and do whatever it is you have to do to print it.

I really should fire up the one I have in a cupboard. It was my brothers and I borrowed it 2 years ago and that's as far as I got!
 
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