Drill bits and sharpeners

[cambournepete]

I know it's not the most exciting of topics, but I'm looking for recommendations for drill bits for general woodworking use (I've enough masonary bits for when I want to bludgeon holes in solid walls...)

The best I've found so far are Dewalt bits with a funny end - can you tell I can't remember what it said on the box :roll:?

Anyway, they've either vanished under piles of rubbish or got broken, so what do people recommend for "normal size" drill bits? Do I want some lip & spur bits? Is there some magicl type or make I've never heard of?

I'm also fed up with trying to force blunt bits to drill holes so what drill-bit sharpening methods do people use, or is disposal the best option?

TIA for any help,

Pete

 

[Alf]

Pete,

Try this thread for starters.

Cheers, Alf

 

[cambournepete]

Thanks Alf

I did try searching for "drill bit" but go too many results containing "drill" and "bit" but not necessarily "drill bit". Is there a way for persuade the search engine to do that ?

I'll speak nicely to the Brimarc chaps at the next Yandles.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[Taffy Turner]

Thanks Alf

I did try searching for "drill bit" but go too many results containing "drill" and "bit" but not necessarily "drill bit". Is there a way for persuade the search engine to do that ?

I'll speak nicely to the Brimarc chaps at the next Yandles.

Cheers,

Pete

Put drill + bit into Google. (The + tells Google to only return hits with both words in, otherwise it will return hits with either word as you have already found out)

It is reasonably straight forward to sharpen ordinary twist drills by hand on a bench grinder - just requires a bit of practice. Make sure that you keep both wings the same length, or it will drill oversize.

Lip and spur bits are a different matter I would have though (Class - discuss!)

Regards

Gary

 

[Alf]

I did try searching for "drill bit" but go too many results containing "drill" and "bit" but not necessarily "drill bit". Is there a way for persuade the search engine to do that ?

Yep, use the inverted commas. i.e "drill bits" rather than drill bits. It also helps to already know the thread you're looking for is there... :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Chris Knight]

Pete,
Although I would not classify them as general purpose, I use Forstner bits so much in woodworking that they almost qualify under that heading.

A true Forstner bit (one that has no centre point) is a rare and expensive beast but the modern kind of so-called Forstner bit that does have a centre point is readily available from many sources. I got a decent set (probably Chinese) from CMT to complement a few very expensive bits I bought from Trend. Lately, I bought a couple of the real cheapo (obviously) Chinese bits, not expecting them to work very well but they did to my surprise and delight.

You can't hurry these things but you can't beat them for clean holes.

 

[Anonymous]

A huge amount of the drilling I do is on a drill press, for which I generally reach for my jobber set (cobalt, 0.5mm increments) from screwfix...expensive - i wanted the titanium coated set, but they had none in stock, so i forked out the extra lotsa dosh for the cobalt ones. The same drills get shoved through masonry, breeze blocks, concrete, plastics etc, as well as wood - no sign of blunting yet, but they're just jobbers, so should sharpen easily enough.

(an oddity, vaguely off-topic, but early on in my engineering days it was hammered into me that the 'bit' is actually the drill, and the 'drill' is actually the driller...hence why i called the 'bits' above the 'drills'! Who else out there with an engineering apprenticeship background recalls that, or is it just me?)

 

[Taffy Turner]

Yup - the technical term for drill bits is in fact "drills".

I had forgotten about that until you reminded me....

Regards

Gary

 

[Alf]

Tsk. Engineers. :roll: Drilling instead of boring too, I suppose? :lol:

I would strongly urge anyone who hasn't, to try lip 'n' spur/brad point/dowel bits. They're the biz in wood and you'll wonder why you've been struggling with jobbers; the point accurately lines up where you want to drill and stays there, and the spurs give you a beautifully clean entry hole. My personal preference is not to use jobbers for anything larger than 4mm in wood, brad points up to about 12mm and then forstners for everything bigger, fwiw. Flat bits don't get a look in and "snail" countersinks are worth the extra cost.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yes Alf, I do use lip & spur too, but I don't have a cohesive set of those, and they're used predominantly when I'm hand drilling - in the drill press, I find I can accurately place the jobbers, and I have the full set of those up to 13mm. I think I own several each of 3 sizes of lip & spur, but have never really been able to find a good, complete set...which I think is what this thread might have originally been about! :lol:

One day, I will get a decent set of lip & spur, but until then the jobbers will do.

Flat (spade) bits get used for bigger holes, cos I have no forstners, and I have a hole-saw set - the type where you have the single arbor that holds the different sized saws. A stanley, I think. I also don't own a single auger, unless you count the ones for the morticer. Hmmm - reading that, I think I'm deficient on the bit (or drill ) front.

 

[Alf]

I think I own several each of 3 sizes of lip & spur, but have never really been able to find a good, complete set...which I think is what this thread might have originally been about! :lol:

I've found no reason to change my opinion voiced in the linked thread on this set. They're holding up really very well. I'd buy them again without hesitation.

Flat (spade) bits get used for bigger holes, cos I have no forstners,

Spade bits! Thanks, I fumbled for, and failed to remember, the name. :roll:

I also don't own a single auger, unless you count the ones for the morticer. Hmmm - reading that, I think I'm deficient on the bit (or drill ) front.

I'm surprised you dare hold your head up at all! :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

I've found no reason to change my opinion voiced in the linked thread on this set. They're holding up really very well. I'd buy them again without hesitation.

Aha - i followed the link you from the thread you pointed to earlier, and just ended up at APTC front page - that set looks spot on, and is probably the answer Pete was looking for all along!

Although, DC and Krenov both take jobbers (which are available in 0.1mm increments), and self-grind the lip and spur on em...I think DC first does that in vol 1, where he's making the Japanese box thingie, but he defers to Krenov. Not something I'm gonna do with the cobalts!
[EDIT - no, it wasn't the box, it was the rather lovely dowel jointed wall cabinet, with brusso knife hinges and krenov door stops - I just remembered]

 

[Alf]

Aha - i followed the link you from the thread you pointed to earlier, and just ended up at APTC front page

D'oh! I'd forgotten Axminster had changed their site since then. For the purposes of the Archive then: Durable Lip & Spur Bit Set, stock code 21BPTC

Although, DC and Krenov both take jobbers (which are available in 0.1mm increments), and self-grind the lip and spur on em...I think DC first does that in vol 1, where he's making the Japanese box thingie, but he defers to Krenov. Not something I'm gonna do with the cobalts!
[EDIT - no, it wasn't the box, it was the rather lovely dowel jointed wall cabinet, with brusso knife hinges and krenov door stops - I just remembered]

I so need to re-read DC; I haven't for ages. Although that wasn't my first reaction to that bit of info. I'm afraid my first was "per-lease. Life's too short :roll: "... :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

OK, we're getting somewhat off topic here (although it is an alternative to buying lip & spur)...but, DC's reasoning was about the manufacturing tolerances in dowels. The wall cabinet's major joints were doweled, and he didn't trust shop-bought dowel sizes, or 'standard' lip & spur drill tolerances. So, he drilled test pieces with a succession of jobbers, in 0.1 mm increments, ground to lip and spur, until he had good fits for his dowels.

Don't remember if he ended up using shop bought dowels, or made his own.

Just another example, I guess, of how he's such a perfectionist in certain respects...i mean, just look at his manicure!

But anyway - next time anyone drills a 6mm hole and finds a 6mm dowel is too sloppy in it, now they know what to do

big EDIT ok, I got off me lazy bum and looked at DC vol 1...the idea is indeed Krenov's, but the worry is about the difference in drilling holes in end grain versus long grain, exactly what you do when making a dowelled 90 degree butt joint. Apparantly, there can be up to 0.1mm difference in the resulting diameter from the same bit. Therefore, a perfect fit in one side of the joint can be too tight in the other, resulting in the risk of splitting as the dowel swells when taking up moisture from the glue. Soooo, DC and Krenov decided they'd play with hand ground lip & spurs, taken from jobber bits at 0.1 mm increments to achieve the perfect fit on both sides of the joint.
end bit EDIT

 

[Alf]

OK, we're getting somewhat off topic here (although it is an alternative to buying lip & spur)...

'Pologies, Pete

but, DC's reasoning was about the manufacturing tolerances in dowels. The wall cabinet's major joints were doweled, and he didn't trust shop-bought dowel sizes, or 'standard' lip & spur drill tolerances. So, he drilled test pieces with a succession of jobbers, in 0.1 mm increments, ground to lip and spur, until he had good fits for his dowels.

Ah well, I've done something similar myself. I think I tried two or three bits to get the best fit on the Music Stand of Myth & Legend for a supposed 8mm dowel. I think there's a lot to be said for a dowel plate to size your dowels acurately incidentally, and easier to do for woodworkers (as opposed to engineering woodworkers) than regrinding drill bits.

Just another example, I guess, of how he's such a perfectionist in certain respects...i mean, just look at his manicure!

Commenting on that has got me into enough trouble in the past... :roll:

But anyway - next time anyone drills a 6mm hole and finds a 6mm dowel is too sloppy in it, now they know what to do

Yep. Try another dowel and/or bit... :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Edit to comment on your edit. :roll: Erm, could it be that dowel joints aren't much cop then? In which case how about using an alternative joint, rather than trying to cure the symptom? And again I find myself in "per-lease" mode btw...

 

[Anonymous]

sorry, cross post - see my edit in previous for reasons for the mucking with small increments.

 

[Anonymous]

Edit to comment on your edit. :roll: Erm, could it be that dowel joints aren't much cop then? In which case how about using an alternative joint, rather than trying to cure the symptom? And again I find myself in "per-lease" mode btw...

OK, now i find myself in the per-lease mode...as in per-lease don't shoot the messenger ! I personally don't like dowel joints, and rarely use them. In the 2 or 3 projects I have used them in over the past 5 years, using regular, shop bought lip & spur (or jobber) drills, I have never encountered any splitting. I think for the wall cabinet in question, I would have used sliding dovetails to join the sides to the top and bottom, and found an alternative way of doing the back...just off the top of my head.

So, horses for courses - If you wanna shoot someone down for the choice of joint in that project, I suspect even DC would point you elsewhere...namely, James Krenov!

And while you're berating him over his use of dowel joints, perhaps you could have a word about his aversion to using abrasives before finishing

oooh, and while talking about drill bits, i've magically become a furniture maker!

 

[Alf]

OK, now i find myself in the per-lease mode...as in per-lease don't shoot the messenger !

S'okay, Esp, I know full well where the target is. I think I'm one of the few - only? - people who don't "get" Krenov, so I'm not afraid to think he's nuts. :wink: :lol: I re-read the DC's article, and I see in subsequent makes of the same cabinet they ditched the dowels too.

oooh, and while talking about drill bits, i've magically become a furniture maker!

So you have; congrats. See what calling them bits instead of drills can do for you eh? :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[cambournepete]

Thanks for the input everyone.

It seems - as usual - that Alf is right and I really want the Axminster set.
When I wrote the original question I didn't even know I wanted lip & spur bits :roll:

What's more Alf's even recommended snail countersinks, which nicely answers the follow-up question without me having to type it .
I guess the most useful size range is 5-10mm? Although Festool do one that's 2-8mm, which might give an excuse for my first Festool purchase :wink:

Thanks,

Pete

 

[Alf]

What's more Alf's even recommended snail countersinks, which nicely answers the follow-up question without me having to type it .

Yep, the new LV crystal ball forum assistant (Patent Pending) is really being put through its paces. Review to come, although if you get one yourself you'll already be able to read it. Oh wait, you are going to be getting one on Tuesday week...

I guess the most useful size range is 5-10mm?

Yep. Although 90 degs or 82? And does it matter anyway? :roll:

Cheers, Alf