dowel joint or biscuit joint?

[russ_1380]

Hello everyone,

I'm Russell, new to the forum and new to hobby woodworking; a complete novice in fact.

I am starting to become more and more interested in home/hobby woodworking and so have started to crave more tools....

One problem I have come across is the need for a jointing tool, either biscuit or dowel. From a beginners point of view they both seem to achieve the same; join two bits of wood. I appreciate they obviously are very different in principle.

Can someone please explain the pros and cons of each joint? Is it simply a case that they are similar joints and it is just down to users' preference as to which they use?

I would need the tool to do two things:

1.) For joining two planks parallel together, to make one wider plank. (I hope this makes sense).

2.) To make 90 degree joints (for a very basic (beginner) box or small cabinet)

From what I have read on the internet both dowel joints and biscuit joints will do the jobs equally well.

Please can you share your experience as to which type of joint is the better all rounder.

I understand that a dowel joint would be the cheapest for me to achieve; I would presumably just need to buy a dowel jig and use my own drill. To do a biscuit I would need to buy a biscuit cutter tool, much more expensive.

My main question to you pro's is; Do you think I should go for a dowel jig or save up my money and buy a decent biscuit cutter? What do you use?

My main criteria are:

-Ease of use
-Accuracy

Many thanks

Russell

 

[Paul Chapman]

A biscuit jointer every time. Much faster, much more accurate and a much stronger joint. You just need to mark a pencil line on both pieces of wood and off you go, so no complicated setting up that you have with a dowelling jig. The joint is much stronger because with dowels there is very little long-grain to long-grain gluing surface.

But buy the best biscuit jointer you can afford - some of the cheaper ones are not so good where accuracy of the fence is concerned.

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[LarryS.]

I'll second the biscuit jointer too, dowels in comparison are much more difficult to align when the biscuit jointer does it automatically.

second thing to note is that biscuits don't strengthen a joint, they just are there to line the two pieces up together. For real strength you'd need a proper joint like a mortice and tenon (when joining to pieces at a 90 degree angle)

however when joining two planks together along their length then a biscuit is fine as you have so much glueing area between the 2 pieces

 

[russ_1380]

Cheers Paul

That's great; my main concern is quality. Could you recommend any models? Bare in mind I am not a tradesperson just an enthusiastic DIYer/hobbyman that needs a tool to last.



Cheers

Russell.

 

[LarryS.]

russell, i was in the same situation as you, looked all over the forum for recommendations and bzased on all that info narrowed it down to one from Machine mart which comes recommended even though its cheap :

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...jointer-230v/path/11-routers-biscuit-jointers

if you can afford a bit more then dewalt or makita are generally seen as very good tools

 

[matt]

Biscuit jointer. I use a Secondhand Elu (now the DW685). The previous owner was a pro joiner and the Elu has seen hard use but remains accurate. So... I'd not hesitate recommending it.

Give dowels a very wide swerve... I've tried numerous jigs and not found one that gives repeatable accurate joints.

Also give some thought to Pocket Hole joints. I'm a recent convert and find them a useful compliment to biscuit joints for smaller pieces of timber (e.g. face frames) and for joining face frames to the carcass (saves buying lots of clamps!

 

[Paul Chapman]

Could you recommend any models?

There are lots of different makes from relatively inexpensive right up to the very expensive. I can only speak about the one I use which is a very old Elu that's a rather different design to most. Here it is in action

Elu no longer exist but it's still made by DeWalt http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/prod ... no/DW685K/ Compared with other biscuit jointers the only thing it doesn't have is a variable angle fence. However, I've always found it excellent.

The more normal style is like this one with a variable fence for working on angled pieces as well as right-angle joints http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/prod ... no/DW682K/

Sorry, that's probably not of much help but others will no doubt be along with experiences of their jointers.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[russ_1380]

No that's great lads. I must admit I didn't expect such a rapid response on a Sun night!

I see the difference between types; to be honest with what I am doing I will probably stick with the conventional type tool.

I've just read you can get biscuits into mitre joints to reinforce them. That would be great for me. I'm planning to make a few small MDF boxes for my tools plus I can cut mitres on my table saw.

How do you guys rate Clarke? I have mixed opinions; living near Liverpool I am quite close to a Machine Mart, they stock mainly Clarke tools.

I have bought numerous Clarke tools in the past and have generally found mixed results, good and bad. My Clarke table saw was not very good out of the box. I have since built a sledge and new fence for it (the original fence went into the bin) and it is much better (but I still wish I spent more and bought a better make).

I have a budget of around £150

 

[woodbloke]

Biscuit jointer every time. Dowelling is inherently inaccurate with a limited gluing strength in certain cases. Biscuit jointing is far more simple and much stronger, I'd advise to buy the best you can afford. Lamello make the best machines (I use a Lamello C2) but other ones such as the Makita are reputed to be very good - Rob

 

[Michael7]

I mentioned this before about the Clarke BJ600 having what looks to have the same fence as a DeWalt682k costing £180.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...days=0&postorder=asc&highlight=bj600&start=15

I got a Clarke a while back and I have no problems with it. Easy to adjust.

 

[cambournepete]

Whilst I agree with the idea of a biscuit jointer, I feel I should point out there is one accurate dowel machine - the Mafell, although at around £500 it's a simlar price to the Domino.
Don't buy a really cheap BJ - I bought the Ferm from Screwfix and it's hopeless and inaccurate - no, wait, it's not that good...

 

[barbyndave]

Hi All,

I am also new - don't be too hard!

As a relative newbie to woodworking, I bought a SIP jointer that went on ebay after first use. My next attempt was a dewalt DW682 as recommended to me - I bought it and upon using it for the first time, found it already needed the depth adjusting aaahhh! I took it back to the dealer and simply asked "what is the best biscuit jointer I can buy". The dealer then proceeded to take many hundreds of my hard earned pounds from me for my Festool Domino!

Russell - even as a beginner to woodwork, I haven't looked back since owning this machine, it covers nearly all the joints I have needed to do, was easy to use & precise.

The only downside is I had to sleep on the couch for a week!!

Goodluck
Dave

 

[Digit]

Biscuit jointer. But they might need a bit more experience than a doweling jig to get the best out of them. Unless you can afford a really good make the first step is to dump the fence.

Roy.

 

[Aled Dafis]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned a router, with a biscuit jointing cutter. As a novice woodworker, you'd get far more versatility from a router than a biscuit jointer - think moulding edges, morticing, grooving etc, etc. Biscuit cutters for the router can be bought fairly reasonably, and from what I've heard, do a good job.

On the other hand, I have a trend biscuit jointer in mint condition that I hardly ever use, especially now that I've splashed out and bought a Festool Domino. It's yours for £75 plus postage if you're interested.

Cheers

Aled

 

[HawkEye]

The festool biscuit jointer is half a grand - hope it lasts you a long long time. 8)


+

If I'm going to join two pieces of 18mm MDF, what rules apply to the width of the biscuit?

 

[trousers]

I bet it will last longer than your plasma telly (if you've got one) :lol:

 

[Paul Chapman]

If I'm going to join two pieces of 18mm MDF, what rules apply to the width of the biscuit?

Biscuits generally come in three sizes - #0 (small), #10 (medium), #20 (large). What size to use depends entirely on the thickness of the pieces you are joining together. In general, use the largest possible.

Where you are jointing very thick boards, say 2" thick as in this oak table top, you can use a double row like this

What I sometimes do if I am joining together two pieces, one of which is thick and the other thin, is to have, say, 2/3 of the biscuit in the thicker piece and 1/3 in the thinner piece. This is easy to do with the biscuit jointer I use (Elu DS140) because it has a continuously variable depth of cut. I'm not sure whether you can do this with all biscuit jointers, some of which I think have set depths of cut to suit the three sizes of biscuit.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Steve Maskery]

I suspect I'm going to get it in the neck here and there will be cries of "Foul!", but there are alternatives.

OK, yes, if your options were just dowels or biscuits, then it is biscuits every time. And if money is no object then it is a Domino every time. At least, every time that falls within its remit.

But loose tenon jonery can be done VERY well with an ordinary router and a few jigs. Inexpensive, versatile, and with results just as good as using a Domino, let alone a dowel jig.

And for one offs, there is not much difference in speed either.

I use "proper" M&T joints now, much more often than I used to, because I own the world's best tenon jig, but I have survived for nigh on 30 years using a router and loose tenons. They work superbly in a huge variety of situations, and you usually have much simpler cleaning up to do afterwards as well.

If you own a back-catalogue of Good Woodworking you can probably find an article on my router mortice jig. I'm afraid I can no longer tell you which issue.

Others will have to tell you where you can find this fount of knowledge today, otherwise I really will get into trouble, but you have many good options without having to spend a fortune.

S

 

[Paul Chapman]

I suspect I'm going to get it in the neck here and there will be cries of "Foul!"

Not at all, Steve - loose tenons or tongues would be just as good. That's the thing with woodwork - there are usually several different ways of doing the job, all equally effective.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[AndyT]

On the other hand, don't just give up on dowels!

Quite some time ago, I needed to make some light weight doors in softwood, finished size about 19 x 45mm, with 4 or 6 mm ply panels, for some built-in cupboards.

I didn't want to spend ages doing m+ts so I cut all the ends square, put two dowels in each corner and then ploughed grooves for the panels.

They are all still in use, no joint failures, all nice and tight! I admit some of the strength will be from the panels, but you don't always need to over-engineer things.

Andy