Dovetails with a hack saw

[Jacob]

.......
I found that the Junior saw had too short a stroke for quick cutting .....

The chap who suggested it to me was a small box and model maker. The junior is OK for small stuff IMHO up to say 3/8" which includes normal drawer side thicknesses

and the depth of the frame of the full size saw made the damn thing wobble all over the place! (AND that also made my wrist ache!)

Practice practice!

The main thing which struck me about using a hacksaw was the very clean sharp edged cut. Cecil Pierce seems to have missed this point.

 

[Harbo]

For fine stuff I find that the very small Zona saws take some beating - they cost less than a tenner too.

I have tried useing a hacksaw in the past (in emergencies) and did not find them very effective but perhaps the blades were blunt from cutting metals?

Rod

 

[Jacob]

Came the dawn and I had another go.
Yes hack-saw will do a nice DT no doubt. Yes the junior is short but is OK for small work IMHO. Yes the bigger one wobbles. But both better than using a 12" tenon.

But my 8" S&J does it better! It has rip teeth but not as steep as 90º.

So thanks for your offer Klaus I'm sure your saw will be at least as good as my S&J and better than a hack saw!

But if you don't have a DT saw then a tenon-saw will do, but a hack-saw could be a better alternative.

Cutting DTs, thin stuff needs supporting well and I use a length of 3x1", standing on the floor so it stays put in between operations;

Hers the Atkinson Walker DT saw with the hideous purple plank handle. It isn't nice to use. The S&J handle doesn't look that different but I prefer it by far.

 

[Alf]

Good lord, Jacob - look at all those planes! And I'm surprised if your eye really isn't good enough to spot the difference between the S&J and the AW (which is an abomination and clearly hasn't grasped that 3D is all the rage these days)

As to Cecil Pierce, I'd heard of him as the hacksaw guy, but not seen details before. Clearly wasn't an "off the saw" dovetail guy, so his use of the hacksaw actually turns out to be something of a moot point. A Junior Hacksaw was my first sawing companion, and I can't say that I see the desirability of wrestling with one for dovetailing when, as Rod points out, a perfectly functioning Zona saw can be had for a tenner. But yeah, you can do the job with any darn thing if you must. How about a Swiss Army knife? Or a teaspoon. If you pay for the postage back, I'll send you a teaspoon and...

 

[Jacob]

Good lord, Jacob - look at all those planes!

Oh dear I should have covered them up

And I'm surprised if your eye really isn't good enough to spot the difference between the S&J and the AW (which is an abomination and clearly hasn't grasped that 3D is all the rage these days)

I can see the difference but there's a family resemblance with the AW being the worst of a bad lot. There is an intermediate S&J handle on my other DT saw which is the next one down the line and has lost the quirk at the front of the hole.

As to Cecil Pierce, I'd heard of him as the hacksaw guy, but not seen details before. Clearly wasn't an "off the saw" dovetail guy, so his use of the hacksaw actually turns out to be something of a moot point. A Junior Hacksaw was my first sawing companion, and I can't say that I see the desirability of wrestling with one for dovetailing when, as Rod points out, a perfectly functioning Zona saw can be had for a tenner. But yeah, you can do the job with any darn thing if you must. How about a Swiss Army knife? Or a teaspoon. If you pay for the postage back, I'll send you a teaspoon and...

I did my first ones with my teeth!

 

[condeesteso]

Did I get this right. Did Klaus offer to swap a Two Lawyers DT for a hacksaw back there? #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o
Hardly upset at all, me.

 

[Richard T]

That "hideous purple plank handle" looks like a handle just roughed out before any work on finishing it. I'd get me rasps out if it were mine ...

 

[Modernist]

The S & J looks quite nice despite it's "60's" styling. It precedes my 70's S & J purple plank version which is half way to the Ghastly AW.

 

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Came the dawn and I had another go.
Yes hack-saw will do a nice DT no doubt. Yes the junior is short but is OK for small work IMHO. Yes the bigger one wobbles. But both better than using a 12" tenon.

But my 8" S&J does it better! It has rip teeth but not as steep as 90º.

So thanks for your offer Klaus I'm sure your saw will be at least as good as my S&J and better than a hack saw!

But if you don't have a DT saw then a tenon-saw will do, but a hack-saw could be a better alternative.

Cutting DTs, thin stuff needs supporting well and I use a length of 3x1", standing on the floor so it stays put in between operations;
...

Hers the Atkinson Walker DT saw with the hideous purple plank handle. It isn't nice to use. The S&J handle doesn't look that different but I prefer it by far.

Thank you Jacob!

I hoped that you would do a test run with a saw that's designed to cut wood to compare it with the performance of a hacksaw. And I appreciate your honesty to admit that there are better ways to cut dovetails than using a hacksaw.

My offer stands. If you like to try one of my dovetail saws for a few weeks, just PM me.

Cheers
Klaus

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have Cecil Pierce's book "The Precision Cutting of Dovetails". Having read through this thread I was wondering why CP chose a hacksaw over the three dovetail saws he owned. It has been a while since I perused this book. My re-visit revealed the following ...

1. The hacksaw's HSS teeth lasted "a lifetime"
2. The hacksaw could be steered (CP modified the blades further by grinding away half their width).
3. This one I find interesting because it flies in the face of my experience - "dovetail saws do not cut fast ... their small teeth are impossible to sharpen .."

Add into this mix that CP would saw to 1/16" from the line, and then pare the remaining waste away with a chisel.

In this book CP presents alternate methods and novel tools to improve the precision of cutting dovetails. It is interesting that it was published in 1995. There were good dovetail saws available that I am sure would have been sharp enough for CP. I imagine that he did not learn to sharpen his saws. His hacksaw blades were 14 tip. How much faster could they have been than a 15 tpi dovetail saw with a sharp blade?

That he wanted to steer the blade is the very antithesis of what is desired today. Of course, the straightness of his lines did not matter since he pared the sides anyway.

So what has this to say about using a hacksaw? Well one can saw a dovetail with anything - I have used many types of saws, ranging from crosscut saws to large tenon saws to fine back saws and a variety of Japanese saws - and, yes, even a hacksaw. The question is not what is possible, but what you prefer to use to do your best work. A hacksaw does not feature for me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jacob]

......The question is not what is possible, but what you prefer to use to do your best work. A hacksaw does not feature for me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Slightly missed the point Derek i.e. hacksaw could well feature for you if didn't have anything better, as it can cut a perfectly OK DT.
Apparently it could be the saw of choice for someone doing very small DTs - which is how I first heard the suggestion.

CP would saw to 1/16" from the line, and then pare the remaining waste away with a chisel.

In which case it wouldn't matter what saw he used. Pierce is a bit irrelevant in this respect.

 

[Alf]

That he wanted to steer the blade is the very antithesis of what is desired today.

It's interesting, that. One of the reasons I gave up on Japanese saws for serious use was I found their kerf so fine as to make the saw unsteerable; I seem to fare better with a little wriggle room. A hacksaw, though, always seem to wriggle in all the wrong ways.

 

[János]

Hello,

A dovetail saw is the British way to cut dovetails, in continental Europe a frame saw/bow saw was the preferred tool, and Tage Frid (who was Dane, if I remember that correctly) tried to popularize its use in the USA.

Have a nice day,

János

 

[Modernist]

Hello,

A dovetail saw is the British way to cut dovetails, in continental Europe a frame saw/bow saw was the preferred tool, and Tage Frid (who was Dane, if I remember that correctly) tried to popularize its use in the USA.

Have a nice day,

János

Ahh more Danish genesis

 

[BigShot]

Proof is in the pudding. Does that translate in German? I wouldn't be surprised if you had a very similar phrase.

You'd need to start with the right phrase to get a worthwhile translation.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Pedantry mode deactivated. Apologies.

 

[Jacob]

Proof is in the pudding. Does that translate in German? I wouldn't be surprised if you had a very similar phrase.

You'd need to start with the right phrase to get a worthwhile translation.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Pedantry mode deactivated. Apologies.

Oh all right then. Mine's the sawn off version.

 

[BigShot]

I like that. A nice way of putting it.

 

[toolmaniac]

Did you know that you can get wood-cutting blades for a junior hacksaw?

 

[devonwoody]

Did you know that you can get wood-cutting blades for a junior hacksaw?

Thanks, where did you see them?

 

[RogerP]

Did you know that you can get wood-cutting blades for a junior hacksaw?

Thanks, where did you see them?

A Google search reveals dozens of places. Here's one