Double or single glaze door?

[ColeyS1]

This constant bickering/arguing reminds me of my childhood.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Lons]

Jacob said:
the problem is with the gollums like yourself who have nothing interesting or useful to say on so many topics but instead turn their attention to attacking other posters.

Could easily and accurately throw that comment right back at you! What you think you said is interesting others see as utter opinionated tosh. :lol:

non of our gollums have attempted to make the slightest comment or contribution to anything else in this thread (and many others), presumably because you having nothing useful or interesting to say, as usual.

Don't need to, Mike has effectively ripped you to shreds, and done it in a much more polite way than others would have, some of us who've been in the building trade and have a little experience of that subject could have contributed but have the good grace to accept that the expert knows what he's talking about rather than pontificate and contradict the guy at every turn - I wonder who did that? Oh yes it was you - AGAIN!

If you don't want to have a conversation revolving around me then don't keep f****g starting them and winding them up, you tedious boring twerps.

Oh dear, has little diddums spat his dummy out again, poor little chap. :wink:

 

[thomashenry]

I don't think Jacob was 'ripped to shreds' at all. I'm still unsure what he's meant to have been wrong about.

 

[Jacob]

I don't think Jacob was 'ripped to shreds' at all. I'm still unsure what he's meant to have been wrong about.

Nor me. :lol:

 

[Jacob]

......
If I assume no sun, and an outside temperature lower than the desired inside temperature, then my tiny brain cannot fathom how thermal mass can reduce heat input. This would be tantamount to free energy, would it not?......

Reduces heat input required by conserving heat from when the sun was out, or other source such as ground heat pump, and releasing it slowly, or on demand in controlled systems. Or in the case of bio mass boiler it conserves the heat from the boiler working efficiently at full blast but producing more heat than can be used immediately. A buffer, in other words. It's simple in principle, but not necessarily in practice.
We looked at combining bio mass boiler, thermal store (water tank), solar roof panels (i.e. water circulating) which looks good but not cheap.
A big step in climate change measures will be when we are no longer have gas, which has to happen very soon*, then all the alternatives start looking viable.
PS * long overdue more like.

 

[Lons]

I don't think Jacob was 'ripped to shreds' at all. I'm still unsure what he's meant to have been wrong about.

Nor me. :lol:

No surprise there then :wink: :lol:

 

[John Brown]

Those points, Jacob, are irelevant to the conditions I proposed. i.e. no sun.
And MikeG's thermostatically controlled lightbulb in a box thought-experiment has nowt to do with biomass, ground source or any other surplus heat scenario.
My questions were really aimed at MikeG, but I guess he's abandoned this thread now, which doesn't surprise me.

 

[Jacob]

Those points, Jacob, are irelevant to the conditions I proposed. i.e. no sun.
And MikeG's thermostatically controlled lightbulb in a box thought-experiment has nowt to do with biomass, ground source or any other surplus heat scenario.
My questions were really aimed at MikeG, but I guess he's abandoned this thread now, which doesn't surprise me.

Right I see what you mean. Presumably the heavy solid construction would conserve heat and buffer the rate of heating up and cooling down. The light weight would heat up quickly and cool down quickly. Not sure what this shows as in the real world you'd simply adjust the source - full blast in a cold room, which would have to stay on longer to heat up a thermal store build, which would then take longer to cool down. Not net gain or loss. Nor would there be with thermostatically controlled bulbs - just automatic adjustment instead.
I'm sure Mike will be along if I've misunderstood.
Just looked back to Mikes post:

Build yourself two boxes in the garden, each 1 metre cubed. Build one of plywood, 100mm Celotex, plywood....all round. Build the other of 100mm cast concrete, with 100mm Celotex externally, with ply cladding. Put a thermostatically controlled 100W incandescent light bulb inside both as a heat source, and monitor the energy use for a year. .....

Still seems to me a zero sum game. The concrete box will take longer to heat up (take up more energy to reach the thermostat setting) but longer to cool down.
PS Oh no it isn't! All other things being equal the total energy consumption of the concrete box would always be higher than the other, by the amount needed at start up to bring it up to temp. :shock:

 

[thomashenry]

I don't think Jacob was 'ripped to shreds' at all. I'm still unsure what he's meant to have been wrong about.

Nor me. :lol:

No surprise there then :wink: :lol:

Do you?

 

[scooby]

I have to admit I've enjoyed reading this thread, apart from the childish rubbish.
Started out with a single or double glazed door which then went onto trombe walls and thermal mass.
I'd never even heard of trombe wall before this and knew very little about thermal mass. I still know about nothing about them, and I'll never be in a situation where I will need to know more, but its been interesting.

 

[OscarG]

I'd never even heard of trombe wall before this...

Same here. It's such a clever idea.

 

[RogerS]

... I'm still unsure what he's meant to have been wrong about.

On the first page, Jacob said "...double glazing does not pay for itself in any situation. " which, as was pointed out to him by a leading expert with several architectural awards under his belt for energy-efficient houses, was nonsense.

But rather than gracefully admit that he was wrong and perhaps should have said "in a lot of situations I don't think that double glazing pays for itself" and then gone on to quantify why he was making that statement, as per usual Jacob did what Jacob always does which was dig his heels in and argue that black equals white, move the goalposts etc.

 

[Lons]

No surprise there then :wink: :lol:

Do you?

Yep!

Do you actually have experience of those topics or just interested and trying to expand your knowledge? Not a criticism, just curious.

My knowledge of double glazing and thermal efficiency gained over 18 years in the construction industry, especially with a grade 2 listed stable and a barn conversion as well as my own property, is no greater than Jacobs' though probably not less either but Mike, politely countered the rubbishing of his experienced, expert opinion which was followed by the regular sideways shuffle that's been seen so often across the forum.

I bow to Mikes' vast expertise, agree with him based on my limited experience and can't add anything to the contrary ...so I don't while Jacob clearly considers himself, as usual vastly more qualified to argue the toss and move the posts to suit.

I refer you to my " little scenario" posted earlier. :lol:

 

[Benchwayze]

Hope it's OK to 'resurrect' this thread:

I hadn't a clue about 'Trombe walls', so I Googled.

https://builditsolar.com/Projects/Space ... arWall.htm

I don't know much more than I read there , but I think I have a kind of Trombe wall servicing my work shop. I call it an up and over, metal garage door.

The door faces due South, and in the hottest weather you can't touch it with your hand. Only in the coldest weather is it really cold.

One thing I did notice was the fact that my tools, even those I don't use often, just don't rust; unless I am careless enough to leave them near gaps around the door. So I don't!

The garage is half-integral with the house, but mainly, because the door faces due South, it must act as a convector, all year round, keeping the shop humidity low. My only gripes are waste space in the rafters, when the door is fully up; and the fact I have to allow for its travel when fixing shelving or placing machinery. I could solve those probs with a metal, roller shutter door, but at my time of life it's a bit late?

Okay then; I Googled Trombe Walls and now I probably know as much about them as does Jacob. No offence Jacob; hope your SOH is still intact old man!

Regards

John

 

[Benchwayze]

I also agree with Mike on cost effectiveness, and I paraphrase Oscar Wilde, from his 'Lady Windermere's Fan'.

Price as compared to Value.

I just leave my heating on low, all through winter. (More or less) It costs I guess, but it's value to me, as keeps me cosy in my old age.

Cheers

John

 

[Jacob]

......
Okay then; I Googled Trombe Walls and now I probably know as much about them as does Jacob. ...

No you haven't quite got it. A "Trombe" wall is a substantial structure with a high specific heat (capacity) sited behind glass to slowly absorb heat from the sun and release it slowly even after the sun has gone in.
Your garage door will gain and lose heat very quickly - little storage capacity and not under glass so will also lose heat very quickly to the outside

 

[Benchwayze]

Still can't take a little joke then Jacob?

I am aware of the heat absorption and transference properties of metal. That's why all my saucepans have plastic or wooden handles.

I still thank my garage door for keeping my shop drier than most amateur shops. As I said, were I to change it, I would go for a metal, roller shutter. That would save me space, and I'd still get the benefits of the heat exchange, as it were.

Take care Jacob. Don't do what I did the other day and take a tumble!

Best wishes

John (hammer)

 

[Rorschach]

Your door is acting like a big radiant heater. My metal garage door used to do the same, it is also south facing and gets plenty of sun. For a long time it was painted dark green. In the summer it would be too hot to touch and unbearable to stand near it. In the winter of course it provided some welcome warmth on fine days.

A change of decor to the front of the house meant it was to be painted white. It is now always cold, summer or winter. While I do miss the winter heat I prefer having the white, aside from the house looking much smarter, the summer heat was a massive problem and fine winter days are rare.

 

[Jacob]

Still can't take a little joke then Jacob?....

Er, what joke? Must have missed it!

 

[Benchwayze]

Too subtle obviously!

John

Cut & Pasted from my post:

Okay then; I Googled Trombe Walls and now I probably know as much about them as does Jacob. No offence Jacob; hope your SOH is still intact old man!