Double-Bevel Paring Chisel Sharpening On Waterstones

[David C]

Hardened tool steel polished by rough skin, I don't think so.

DC

 

[Jacob]

Hardened tool steel polished by rough skin, I don't think so.

DC

Maybe yours is too soft and smooth! :lol: :lol:

 

[bugbear]

The point is - stropping without abrasives is a different thing altogether from an apparently similar process with abrasives.

It is with some trepidation that I ask - what's the difference, do you think?

Do they both remove metal? Or Is one some kind of cold forging process? Does natural leather merely have some abrasive (of what fineness?) already?

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

The point is - stropping without abrasives is a different thing altogether from an apparently similar process with abrasives.

It is with some trepidation that I ask - what's the difference, do you think?

Do they both remove metal? Or Is one some kind of cold forging process? Does natural leather merely have some abrasive (of what fineness?) already?

BugBear

You tell me BB. It works. Friction? Friction in general polishes things. Who cares? Can you prove that bumble bees can fly?

PS if you google you might get stuff like this:
very complex and hard to define, but it is certain that the topography of each surface, the material to be removed and the hardness are involved in that phenomena. Thus frictional force and the polishing temperature give important information about thepolishing situation. The schematic representation of the contact interface is depicted in Fig. 1(a). The shearing force between the surfaces causes the friction resulting in removal of material from not only the surface of the wafer but also from the surface of the pad. Most of the shearing energy generates frictional heat and the heat is transferred to the wafer,

Let us know when you've got it and give us a precis if you can.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Blimey, Jacob, you do raise some spurious issues in relation to sharpening. You seem to be obsessive about it. It's not that hard to sharpen a blade - why not just get on with it.....

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Harbo]

Here's a rather lengthy piece on Razor Stropping on leather.

http://www.coticule.be/stropping-a-straight-razor.html

 

[Jacob]

..... It's not that hard to sharpen a blade - why not just get on with it.....

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I do!
It's the others who are obsessive - I'm just trying to be helpful.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I'm just trying to be helpful.

And failing miserably :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

Having patiently checked references (as far back as 1830), in both my little library, and the helpful (but slightly American) information in google books, I can confidently state that normal practice for stropping of both razors and carving tools was done on leather "dressed" with abrasives.

Tallow is the most widely recommended carrier, with the abrasives being iron oxide (as rouge or crocus), tin oxide (AKA putty), and emery (described as "very fine").

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Having patiently checked references (as far back as 1830), in both my little library, and the helpful (but slightly American) information in google books, I can confidently state that normal practice for stropping of both razors and carving tools was done of leather "dressed" with abrasives.

Tallow is the most widely recommended carrier, with the abrasives being iron oxide (as rouge or crocus), tin oxide (AKA putty), and emery (described as "very fine").

BugBear

It may not be in the books - a lot of stuff isn't, but I can confidently state that stropping is also commonly done on a plain piece of leather, and even on one's palm. Take it or leave it.
There is a problem with book sourced info in that the writer may have wanted to put down the "official" version, or a reliable method for beginners (hence two bevel mania), or a spiffing wheeze of his own. Books like "The Wheelwrights Shop" are rare in that they observe in a journalistic way how things were really done (as well as the observer can interpret it) and you get a sense of tip of the iceberg - lots of things never recorded.

 

[bugbear]

Having patiently checked references (as far back as 1830), in both my little library, and the helpful (but slightly American) information in google books, I can confidently state that normal practice for stropping of both razors and carving tools was done of leather "dressed" with abrasives.

Tallow is the most widely recommended carrier, with the abrasives being iron oxide (as rouge or crocus), tin oxide (AKA putty), and emery (described as "very fine").

BugBear

It may not be in the books - a lot of stuff isn't, but I can confidently state that stropping is also commonly done on a plain piece of leather, and even on one's palm. Take it or leave it.
There is a problem with book sourced info in that the writer may have wanted to put down the "official" version, or a reliable method for beginners (hence two bevel mania), or a spiffing wheeze of his own. Books like "The Wheelwrights Shop" are rare in that they observe in a journalistic way how things were really done (as well as the observer can interpret it) and you get a sense of tip of the iceberg - lots of things never recorded.

For some of the reasons you cite, I was careful to find multiple sources, multiple authors and a wide range of dates for my evidence.

I don't think you can (or should) write off all written evidence on the off chance the author might have been making it up. You might just as reasonably assume the author has some integrity.

Here's some evidence from a social historian(!!) - presumably with no axe to grind on sharpening techniques, official, reliable, or whatever,

There are twelve street-sellers of razor-paste, but they seem to prefer " working" the distant suburbs, or going on country rounds, as there are often only three in London. It is still vended, I am told, to clerks, who use it to sharpen their pen-knives, but the paste, owing to the prevalence of the use of steel pens, is now atmost a superfluity, compared to what it was. It is bought also, and frequently enough in public-houses, by working-men, as a means of "setting" their razors. The venders make the paste themselves, except two, who purchase of a street-seller. The ingredients are generally fuller's earth (Id.), hog's lard (Id.), and emery powder (2<Z.). The paste is sold in boxes carried on a tray, which will close and form a sort of case, like a backgammon board. The quantity I have given will make a dozen boxes (each sold at Id.), so that the profit is Id. in the Is., for to the id. paid for ingredients must be added Id., for the cost of a dozen boxes. The paste is announced as " warranted to put an edge to a razor or penknife superior to any thing ever before offered to the public." The street-sellers offer to prove this by sharpening any gentleman's penknife on the paste spread on a piece of soldier's old belt, which sharpening, when required, they accomplish readily enough. One of these paste-sellers, I was told, had been apprenticed to a barber; another had been a cutter, the remainder are of the ordinary class of street-sellers.

Calculating that 6 men " work" the metropolis daily, taking 2s. each per day (with Is. 2d. profit), we find 187/. the amount of the street outlay.

Abrasives on strops were common and normal practice. The evidence seems good enough for woodworking purposes.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

......
I don't think you can (or should) write off all written evidence on the off chance the author might have been making it up. You might just as reasonably assume the author has some integrity......

I don't "write off all written evidence". That'd be really stupid. I'm just saying that other stuff went on (goes on) which may not be recorded.

Your account of paste sellers made me laugh - were they selling something anybody needed? Somehow I think not. If only they had thought of honing jigs, they could have built an empire! Were they the brothers Axminster? Or our Matthew's ancestors? Think "Gillette". A bit of snake oil on the side and a cure for warts?

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I was taught to strop with talc or french chalk.

There's certainly a question over how representative the written record is, since much of it (the greater part?) is penned by peddlars or dilettantes (a bias which also holds true for online content.)