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Door Knob Fitting Help Needed

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wobblycogs

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Sorry if this is a bit too off topic for general, I won't be offended if it gets moved :)

In my quest to have a house with all the mod cons like door knobs I've rushed out and bought some of these:





All was going well until it came time to fit them #-o. No matter what I do they bind up when turned and stop the catch from popping back out.

Here's what I think is supposed to happen... The door already has a rim lock fitted through which I slide the plain knob and threaded square bar. I think the idea then is that I screw the fixing plate onto the bar and then screw the fixing plate to the door - this locks the plain knob in place. Then the other knob is slipped onto the bar, screwed to the door and the grub screw tightened up.

Where it goes wrong: if I screw the fixing place all the way up to the door the knob binds when turned in one direction because the bar is threaded so it pulls the knob tight against the lock. If I do the grub screw up the knob binds very tightly. I'm not completely sure why the grub screw causes it to bind but I think it's because the bar and knob are not quite turning about the same axis.

I've fitted two of these so far (another 10 to go) and the solution I'm using is to put the fixing plate on back-to-front (without screws) and take the grub screw out of the non-lock side knob. It's not an ideal solution but it seems to work.

I would love to know what I'm doing wrong though, this is driving me completely nuts (and I think LOML is fed up with me being in a bad mood because I can't figure it out). A million thank yous to anyone who can correct my muppetry.
 

Hudson Carpentry

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I have never seen one like that before.

It makes no sense as to why they would take the extra time and effort to machine this when the "conventional" way to fit a knob not only works great but seems to (unless there is a plate missing from pick) look the same each side.
 

Jacob

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Probably better to leave out the little collar. If the outer knob has a grub screw this should hold it all.
Or just fix it the same as you did but looser- both knobs loose enough so that a full turn either way won't cause it to bind.
 

wobblycogs

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Got to love this forum, two replies in five minutes :)

Everything in the kit is in the picture except for the screws. As it's a knob set for a rim lock no plate is needed for the lock side of the door.

This is hard to explain but this is why I think the grub screw causes it to bind. The knob without the bar (upper one in the pictures) is fixed firmly to the mounting plate which is in turn screwed to the door. That defines an axis about which the bar must turn. The rim lock on the other side of the door also defines an axis about which the bar must turn. It's as good as impossible to get those two axes to line up perfectly e.g. if the door isn't perfectly flat both sides etc etc. Leaving the grub screw out means there's enough play in the system that the knob can rotate.

You can't even being to imagine how frustrating it is to struggle to fit a door knob :-D
 

petermillard

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I've fitted a couple of these recently - they do seem to be specific to Rim Locks. I think the idea is that the little collar secures the lock-side knob to the door, instead of relying on a grub screw bearing against the spindle on the other side - in fact, I'm pretty sure the ones I fitted didn't have a grub screw, just the plate to screw it to the door.

You do need to be quite precise with the placement of the collar though - and don't tighten it too much or it'll bind against the body of the lock.

HTH Pete
 

wobblycogs

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Cheers Pete, it's good to hear that you are fitting it the same way I am. I'm find the collar is incredibly fiddly to fit correctly. If it's so much as quarter of a turn too much it binds. A good dose of 3-in-1 certainly helps matters. I'm hoping that as they are brass they'll loosen up as bit with use, seems to be the case for the first one that I fitted a couple of weeks ago.
 

wobblycogs

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The knobs have no springs. The spring in the lock is disappointingly feeble now I come to think about it. Not much I can do about that now though.
 

Rob Platt

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frequently the problem is caused by the 3 screws pulling the the whole thing out of alignment and or the 3 screws causing the knob itself to bind on the door when its screwed up tight.
hth
all the best
rob
 

knappers

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I have about 17 pairs of similar in our house. I found they have to be left a bit loose to avoid binding.
The biggest problem I find is the grub screws backing out, needing a tweak every so often.

Si.
 

Lons

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Hi Wobblycogs

I've encountered this more times than I can remember. you've answered your own question really when you said the door sides aren't flat.

Jacob and Rob hit the nail on the head as to the usual cause of being out of alignment and it's usually due to the lock mechanism not being fitted parallel to the door sides.
Re-fitting the lock or loose handle fitting are the options available IMO.

cheers

Bob
 

carpenteire2009

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knappers":3jjoi3jx said:
I have about 17 pairs of similar in our house. I found they have to be left a bit loose to avoid binding.
The biggest problem I find is the grub screws backing out, needing a tweak every so often.

Si.
Anytime I've seen this knob and rim lock arrangement in old properties the knobs have always been decidedly loose or sloppy in their movement, so I think that may be the solution. Use a bit of Loctite threadlock on the grubs screws when tightening to prevent them backing out- clean the threads thoroughly before application.
 
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