Domestic work 110 or 240 legal requirements??

[Corky74]

Hi recently became self employed and now all my work is mostly domestic fitting kitchens ,bathrooms ,and joinery work etc ,my previous work was all on sites so had use of 110 gear ,now I'm working domestic mostly I've been using 240 gear as already had it,what I've been told recently by another chippy is even working domestic I should use 110 gear still as once I'm employed to say fit a kitchen in a customers house it's now classsed as site once I start work ,any idea is this is correct

 

[RobinBHM]

It isnt true, it is one interpretation of the HSE guidelines though. The new CDM regulations does mean things like that need to be thought about on domestic sites.

overview guidance from HSE on construction site supplies is found in HSG150:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg150.pdf

(even thought the link says "priced", it's free to download now, as are most HSE publications).


Look under "electricity" on pages 94-97.

Special locations and conditions (e.g. confined spaces) excepted, 110 V and/or cordless are highly recommended, and use of 230V tools is recommended to be "more appropriate to dry indoor sites where damage from heavy or sharp materials is unlikely."

One warning, though - if you want to read around electrical safety in construction, most HSE publications talking about this (even the newer ones) refer to a currently out-of-print HSG141 "Electrical Safety in Construction". I think the more resourceful may be able to obtain it, but if not it should be available from a library ??

This has a telling tale on page 11:

"if, having considered the hierarchy of risk control, a mains voltage (230 V) supply is selected for portable tools and equipment, additional precautions must be provided to reduce the risk to an acceptable level (see paragraph 70)."

And para 70 has a number of effective "conditions", e.g.:

-RCD must be used
-RCD operation to be checked daily with test button, and inspected weekly together with the equipment it is supplying during a formal visual inspection.
-RCD must be tested every 3 months by an electrician using appropriate test equipment.

along with other recommendations about the tools/equipment itself (e.g. must be fit for purpose, should be double insulated, etc.).


Conclusion:

HSE guidance is that 110 V RLV system should be used to "effectively eliminate" shock risks on construction sites. 230 V can be used, but only after risk assessment and suitable implementation/control measures are in place.

 

[tomatwark]

It is not law.

You will find most folks use 240v if they are working in a domestic job and there are not lots of other trades around as is it easier than lugging a transformer around for drilling one hole or doing one cut with a jigsaw.

We have always used 240v for the corded stuff but now we are starting to get into larger projects are changing over to cordless or 110v as, we have had to hire kit in to meet the HSE requirements of some of the sites, others we have had the kit checked and used RCDs, and some have been fine that our kit has been PAT tested.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting ... x-110v.htm

This might help.

 

[mindthatwhatouch]

As far as I understand it.
The HSE law states that you must take precautions to prevent electric shocks whilst working. Not just to yourself but the public also.
On a construction site part of this is the normal practice to use 110v or battery equipment.
Use of 240v to be avoided but If using then the daily inspection of the equipment and leads and use of an RCD (in your case could be the customers one that's part of the installation) also regular checks of the equipment by a qualified person. A recorded portable appliance test would suffice.

I don't think there is any distinction between a domestic setting and a construction site, it's a place of work and you need to take the precautions!
I would consider using properly maintained tools and extension leads on an RCD is taking the necessary precautions.

Seems we were all replying at the same time, apologies for the repetition.

 

[Corky74]

So pretty much if using 240 and following every rule going I'd be having to get everything tested regular,which is obviously a bit of a hassle plus we already use rcd cables etc , normally it's just me and lad I work with so no other trades are there same time as us ,been looking at getting new plunge saw as my last one has to stay with old boss so I'm in 2 minds to get the 110 or 240 for this reason

 

[mindthatwhatouch]

A yearly portable appliance test is regular?

 

[Moonsafari69]

Everything is 'fine' until there is a problem.

If there's an accident that causes injury to an employee or a member of the public, someone will be accountable and will need to demonstrate they have controlled all risks 'as far as is reasonably practicable'.

The answer here may not be found in an ACOP or Guidance Note, it is common sense. 110 or Battery powered tools will more fully mitigate the risk.

 

[RobinBHM]

110volt transormers are centre tapped so voltage is 55volts making it a pretty safe supply.

240volts is not safe and whilst rcd protection is potentially a solution, it needs regular testing and no site manager would accept the risk, hence why 240volts is not allowed, in fact most sites only have 110v outlets.

Having said all that there are many trademen working in customers houses that use 240 volts. The sensible thing to do is to carry out a risk assessment for each project and minimise all the key risks such as working at height, risk of trips etc -5 mins at the beginning of every job a d each day ckuld have a big impact on keeping yourself injury free.

 

[Corky74]

Decided on 110v as better safe than sorry ...cheers dudes

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You can, of course, pick up second hand 110v stuff cheaper as the market is much smaller.

 

[lurker]

You can, of course, pick up second hand 110v stuff cheaper as the market is much smaller.

I had assumed it was because most of it was stolen

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Dunno ... most professionally used stuff I've seen is marked and very easily identified, if not by the owners monicker at least as its being stolen. I no longer use mine 230v stuff for work but it's all well marked and "Smartwater"ed.

 

[Sawyer]

Interestingly, an electrician I know is dubious that 110 is safer anyway, as "It's amps that kill, rather than volts." Not knowing much about electrics, I have no idea whether he has a point or not. Any thoughts?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Interestingly, an electrician I know is dubious that 110 is safer anyway, as "It's amps that kill, rather than volts." Not knowing much about electrics, I have no idea whether he has a point or not. Any thoughts?

Generally 110V transformer-isolated kit is quite a lot safer, but that isn't straightforward, because of the way the transformers can be wired/used.

Expect a 110V transformer to occasionally cause MCBs to trip when you plug it in (sometimes there is a current spike). It's a nuisance, not a fault.

Generally, get one of these (or similar) and keep it handy:

http://martindale-electric.co.uk/martindale-cp501-classic-check-plug-240v-socket-tester-p-277.html

Basically, 3 lights good; anything else bad. They're failsafe: if the unit itself is faulty you'll get less than three lights. So if the tester goes faulty (unlikely as they're really simple things) you may not be able to test the wiring but you'll know there's a problem.

We used them when we did location surveys (for broadcast venues) in the 1980s (a compulsory part of the survey): it was disturbing how often they revealed nasties. TV outside broadcasts almost always ran from generators, but radio usually plugged the van into a 13A socket at the site. Most commonly any fault was poor earthing, but I remember a colleague found one socket in a big church with a live-neutral reversal!

I've seen "interesting" wiring arrangements in domestic premises, such that I would never assume anything (new or old).

Our own place would frighten any electrician at first glance: there are four distribution boards under the stairs, three of which use wired fuses, and a cartridge-fused isolator for the garage/workshop, and a 16A plug/socket for the study ring (in case I ever want to switch to a genny for the computer kit). It's all safe and legal, but complex in an unusual way. But I've fixed other issues left behind by electricians down the years (e.g. 15A round-pin sockets left connected because they were convenient), and I still don't trust bits from the rewire it had in the 1980s (done by someone else), as I found a number of nasties associated.

Part P?

Pah! A piece of paper doesn't seem to slow down the stupid...

Treat it like the Cold War mantra: "trust, but verify"

E.

 

[HappyHacker]

110 V will kill you as nearly easily as 240V. The advantage of 110V is that each live cable to earth is 55V which may kill you but is at the level where you would need a good contact with both the live wire and earth to get enough amps through your body to kill you. But just getting a shock may cause a fall which could injure you. If you get hold of both live wires then 110V will get the amps through you much easier than 55 V and there have been fatalities with 110V equipment.

110V equipment also needs PAT testing. PAT testing should not be an automatic annual exercise, you should be doing a risk assessment as to the probability of something being damaged. So your drill used every day outside on a building site will need testing more often than one used once a week in a clean domestic environment. But every piece of electrical equipment should be visually inspected before use to make sure that it has not been damaged and periodically given a formal visual inspection where the outcome is documented so that if the worst happens you can show that you have taken reasonable precautions. A full electrical test can then be performed as the risks dictate.

As an aside I consider most PAT testing to be a waste of time and a scam. I have a friend who runs PAT courses on behalf of a large company. When they sent an external PAT testing organisation to test all their electrical equipment all the faulty equipment he used for the course was marked as passed despite already having red do not use stickers on it! When a company is charging less that a pound per item there is no time to do anything other than to stick a label on. In many cases it is just a transfer of risk to the PAT testing company.

I happily use 240 equipment on customer premises (RCD protected of course) although I do also have and use 110V equipment as well but usually outside.

 

[No skills]

We found at work that some socket testers gave false results if used on equipment run off of long cables, we assume that voltage drop was the cause - other brands were fine.

I've mixed feelings about the 110-240 tool situation, working with a mixture of both in less than optimal conditions for many years I find it quite hard to see how anybody is getting much of a shock with anything running on rcd protection using modern insulated tools (?) - I spose it must happen but wow it's difficult.

 

[HappyHacker]

I am with No Skills on the 110/230 tools and I no longer buy 110 V equipment but I am in the process of retiring so have much less need these days.

The socket tester that also test the quality of the earth usually fail if the earth is TT (provided by an earth rod) rather than being provided by the supplier. TT earth is more usual in country locations farms and outbuildings. The resistance of the TT earth is usually too high to allow a fuse or circuit breaker to trip in the required time in the event of an earth fault so an RCD is used to protect against earth faults. It is quite common for British Gas to inform people their earth is inadequate when their testers indicate a fault but it is often a TT earth which is working properly.

 

[Corky74]

I am with No Skills on the 110/230 tools and I no longer buy 110 V equipment but I am in the process of retiring so have much less need these days.

Probably my main issue is when I'm fitting decking or building a gazebo or other exterior works and have my compound saw 240v out which obviously is on 240 v extension , I cover up my saw if it's a shower but never my cable , I do work outside about 25% of time , probably I'd be safer with 110v. But it is on a rcd too so it's got some protection

 

[Eric The Viking]

The thing about plug-in testers isn't the exceptions, it's that, as a general rule, if they show a fault there is a reason to take care and/or find out why. It's not about finding fault where there isn't any, but being warned if something might be dangerous to you, plugging your equipment into that socket.

It's a long time since I passed exams in this stuff, but I thought when fed by a pair of overhead cables, one answer was to bond earth and "neutral" together at the premises. In which case you should get sensible readings, as it functions the same as using the "board's earth".

And for the record, I wouldn't let a British Gas fitter into the house unless I was compelled to for some reason.

 

[No skills]

I am with No Skills on the 110/230 tools and I no longer buy 110 V equipment but I am in the process of retiring so have much less need these days.

Probably my main issue is when I'm fitting decking or building a gazebo or other exterior works and have my compound saw 240v out which obviously is on 240 v extension , I cover up my saw if it's a shower but never my cable , I do work outside about 25% of time , probably I'd be safer with 110v. But it is on a rcd too so it's got some protection

Maybe make up a lead with commando type plugs on it (with one on the saw too) if your outdoors with 240 a fair bit.