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Do I need to do this glue-up again?

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Baball

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Hello. I am still relatively new to woodworking and learning a lot on each project and from this forum.

For my third project I have started building a play kitchen for my kids for Christmas. I glued up this panel for the worktop from two oak boards (800mm x 210mm) in my garage workshop on Friday, using Titebond 3 and aligned with biscuits. I came back the next day and found it had dried this chalky white on the surface. The temperature in the garage was around 5 degrees when I found this and the lower limit for Titebond 3 is 45 fahrenheit which is around 7 celsius. I don't know what the temperature was on the day of the glue up, but before using it I had kept the glue in the house so that it wasn't too cold.

There are sections that have dried the yellowy/brown colour I would have expected, at the end grain and where the clamps and cauls were, but the rest is white like this. Do I need to cut down that glue line and do it again?

The boards aren't aligned at the ends as I will trim it to size later.

Thanks for any advice!

PXL_20211205_215244524.jpgPXL_20211205_215256091.jpg
 

TheTiddles

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That was too cold for it, however it may be good enough if it was just the surface smears that got too cold.

‘Tis the season… to glue up indoors
 

Baball

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That was too cold for it, however it may be good enough if it was just the surface smears that got too cold.

‘Tis the season… to glue up indoors
Thanks TheTiddles. I was hoping the same, that it was just those messy smears that were affected. This is the first project I've done at this time of year and I didn't even think about the cold affecting the drying process until I saw this :(

I think I will have to start doing the glue ups last thing in the day so they can set over night, and then be moved out of the house in the morning. We've not really got anywhere I can leave stuff clamped up without the little ones prodding or falling over it!
 

Baball

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Does it feel like it's glued up ok ?
Hi Adam,

I tentatively tried to flex the panel at the centre to see if it had any strength at all and it seemed solid. I then supported the two long edges and placed a 10kg kettle bell on the joint and it didn't fail but I only left it there for a few minutes. I'm not expecting it to get any real stress in its intended use, so I guess the only thing that might cause an issue is any movement once it is in the house and acclimatises?
 
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grumpycorn

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For small glue ups, you can use a small electric blanket. Cheap to run overnight and will make sure it stays nice and toasty overnight without breaking the bank.
 

Ttrees

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If you can suspend your timber over an oil rad, and use a heavy blanket or two,
you shouldn't have any trouble.
Probably could get 25c in a tent easily enough with a 2000w rad, say within 45mins...
which might be a too excessive depending on whether there is any draft in the room or not.
A 1500w rad might need another blanket for a better sealed tent, and a little more time to suck the cold out, should it be heavy stock with thermal mass.
I find a big difference between the cheapie 2000w rad and the known brand name "safer" one.

Even if the room is warm, a foot off the floor it might not be the case.
I had that happen where the glue didn't set, and was chalky on the outside and the joint pulled apart
like silicone, even though I wasn't six feet away from an admittedly not so great stove.
SAM_3033.JPG
 

Baball

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For small glue ups, you can use a small electric blanket. Cheap to run overnight and will make sure it stays nice and toasty overnight without breaking the bank.
Great idea, thanks grumpycorn! Would you wrap the job in the blanket or just lay it on the top of the blanket?
 

Baball

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If you can suspend your timber over an oil rad, and use a heavy blanket or two,
you shouldn't have any trouble.
Probably could get 25c in a tent easily enough with a 2000w rad, say within 45mins...
which might be a too excessive depending on whether there is any draft in the room or not.
A 1500w rad might need another blanket for a better sealed tent, and a little more time to suck the cold out, should it be heavy stock with thermal mass.
I find a big difference between the cheapie 2000w rad and the known brand name "safer" one.

Even if the room is warm, a foot off the floor it might not be the case.
I had that happen where the glue didn't set, and was chalky on the outside and the joint pulled apart
like silicone, even though I wasn't six feet away from an admittedly not so great stove.
View attachment 123518
Thanks Ttrees. Working in the garage for the last few evenings has convinced me I should invest in even some simple heating for me and the glue. Is there a brand of oil rad that is good to look for?
 

Ttrees

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I'm not sure there's much to go wrong if buying a new cheap 2000w oil rad.
The metal doesn't seem thinner on the cheap house one and the shed one shown, although the wheels are about the only thing stand out noticeable to me, whether that's an issue or not to some.
I wouldn't mind carpy wheels, as it might make me seek out better more suitable bigger wheels for it.

Matthias Wandel (woodgears) recently made a video about them and it seems you might need replace the thermostat in them eventually, likely the case with all of them.
The one shown is an old larger Dimplex 1500w and not so great for heating anything up other than a tent.
I had mine on accidentally for a whole day and a half, and the un-insulated shed is now a toasty 7/8 degrees, compared to maybe 3 degrees.
Might have noticed the other one if it were the case. :rolleyes:

Tom
 

thetyreman

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in these temperatures I use a heat gun on the join line before clamping together, makes a big difference, the joint looks fine to me, a card scraper will clean up the glue.
 

Baball

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in these temperatures I use a heat gun on the join line before clamping together, makes a big difference, the joint looks fine to me, a card scraper will clean up the glue.
Thanks tyreman. That is a good solution. I'm hoping that because the glue was at room temperature that it set up enough inside the joint.

I don't have card scrapers yet, and they probably would have helped, it took about an hour of sanding with a ROS to get that dried glue off! I was in a bit of a rush doing the glue up and didn't wipe it up as well as I should have done.

There is a set of 4 Veritas card scrapers on Axminster for about £19, is that a good option?
 

grumpycorn

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Great idea, thanks grumpycorn! Would you wrap the job in the blanket or just lay it on the top of the blanket?
I just cover it in the electric blanket then put an old blanket on top to retain the heat a bit. I've only tried it a couple of times so far but it seems to have worked OK.
 

thetyreman

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There is a set of 4 Veritas card scrapers on Axminster for about £19, is that a good option?
yes, the one I use the most is a 0.6mm thick one, I like the thin ones more, mine is a cheap bacho one, I would hope the veritas would be better
 
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LBCarpentry

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Just get a little 2k workshop fan heater and get it toasty in there before gluing up. I have a Stanley one that I use in my shed. Sure that glue up will be fine.
Remember to plug the heater into a timer switch - don’t leave it running all night long.

And like others have said - get some 10minute PU glue for this time of the year. 5 degrees is easily manageablefor glue ups. It’s the -1 temps that are a challenge!
 

Baball

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PU glue works at lower temperatures so is a good choice this time of year.
Thanks Doug, that's useful to know. I'll look to add some to the glue collection. Titebond's PU glue seems to need above 10 degrees though so any pointers on a low-temp brand would be welcomed.
 

Baball

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yes, the one I use the most is a 0.6mm thick one, I like the thin ones more, mine is a cheap bacho one, I would hope the veritas would be better
Tempted by the Bahco now, about £9 for one and I could get it tomorrow. Otherwise the Veritas ones will wait for the next Axminster order.

After much sanding it now looks like this. Quite pleased with it, but there are a few bits of white glue in the grain that will be near impossible to sand out, perhaps a job for the scraper. The band of lighter wood is original in the boards, not from my interventions!

PXL_20211206_110655477.jpg
 

Baball

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Just get a little 2k workshop fan heater and get it toasty in there before gluing up. I have a Stanley one that I use in my shed. Sure that glue up will be fine.
Remember to plug the heater into a timer switch - don’t leave it running all night long.

And like others have said - get some 10minute PU glue for this time of the year. 5 degrees is easily manageablefor glue ups. It’s the -1 temps that are a challenge!
Thanks LB! I spent a few hours in the garage today and a heater is definitely on the shopping list!
 
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