David's story: Road Safety Campaign

[Ali]

Norfolk Constabulary have released video footage of the tragic last moments of David Holmes' life. David was wearing an on-board camera and the police with David's family have released this footage to make both motorcyclists and drivers think about road safety. There is a BBC link to this story down below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29064891

There is also a Youtube video with David's story. The videos are distressing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2xStb0R-c

I have deep sympathy for David and his family, however I also have some sympathy for the driver too. He has prosecuted for death by dangerous driving, banned from driving and sentaced to community service. David was travelling at 97mph, normally the driver is in the wrong for turning into his path but at that speed I'm not sure I would have anticipated a motorcyclist travelling so fast. One minute it's clear, the next it's not - this has happened many times.

Am open to being educated on this one, have a safe weekend everyone.

 

[bugbear]

Driver's lack of observation caused the accident, biker's speed caused the consequences.

BugBear

 

[theartfulbodger]

Sympathies to all involved.

This is an interesting read
http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilo ... -cyclists/

Quote
“Sorry mate, I didn’t see you”. Is a catchphrase used by drivers up and down the country. Is this a driver being careless and dangerous or did the driver genuinely not see you?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As a biker and a car driver, I have an element of sympathy for the car driver - he couldn't have expected to see a bike travelling at 40mph faster than it should have been going. Wrong speed, wrong place. It would be interesting to know if the following car had day running lights, though - the car driver that pulled across the junction might have seen the lights of the car behind the bike and missed the headlight of the bike.
R.I.P. the rider, nevertheless.

 

[Baldhead]

Very very sad.

Baldhead

 

[ColeyS1]

I heard this on the news and knew one way or another I'd end up seeing the footage. Goes without saying I feel sorry for Davids family, im sure its probably not up for discussion but I'd have thought the car driver would have suffered enough, without making an example of him in courts. I guess the video will have the intended effect

 

[RossJarvis]

Absolutely shocking to watch. Plus it's a bit tricky to see how much at fault the car driver really was, although definitely at fault.

One of the main reasons I went to the Institute of Advanced Motorists (I.e. Bearded Motorcyclists with adenoids and BMWs :twisted: ), was to try and keep myself alive a bit longer. One of the main things they try and drum into you is to try and anticipate any danger. Just assume all other drivers wish to kill you.

Maybe the poor chap in the video could have avoided all the heart-ache for the car driver and his own family, maybe not. But I recommend anyone on a bike to get as much additional training as possible.

 

[Paul Chapman]

A truly shocking video.

One of the main things they try and drum into you is to try and anticipate any danger.

This is clearly what the motorcyclist failed to do. His action in approaching a junction at close to 100mph was reckless. There was oncoming traffic and he had no idea what traffic might have been approaching the junction from the left or the right. While there was some blame on the part of the motorist, the motorcyclist put himself in a situation where he left no room for error. A terrible lack of judgement which he realised when it was too late.

All very sad.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Ghengis]

SOME blame attached to the motorist!!!! at the end of the day if the motorist had made good observations David would be alive today, i bet non of the motorists on here have ever broken the speed limit!

PS i am an advanced bike rider, emergency blood bike rider and advanced car driver

 

[nanscombe]

SOME blame attached to the motorist!!!! at the end of the day if the motorist had made good observations David would be alive today, i bet non of the motorists on here have ever broken the speed limit!

PS i am an advanced bike rider, emergency blood bike rider and advanced car driver

Looking at the footage of the moyorcyclist speeding over, what I presume to be (as I am not a driver), no overtaking zones his driving style leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least.

What is the stopping distance for motorbike traveling at 97mph? Or is it not stated as it would not be legal to be driving at this speed.

97mph is approx 43 metres per second. Around 100 yards in 2 seconds, how the hell is the poor driver supposed to anticipate that?

 

[ColeyS1]

SOME blame attached to the motorist!!!! at the end of the day if the motorist had made good observations David would be alive today, i bet non of the motorists on here have ever broken the speed limit!

PS i am an advanced bike rider, emergency blood bike rider and advanced car driver

How much more over the speed limit would the biker have had to be going for it to not be the fault of the car driver ? If the biker had been going 200mph would the car driver still be expected to notice it ? There must be a speed where its so fast you don't have chance to notice/react, then the blame should surely be on the speeder :?:

 

[Alex H]

SOME blame attached to the motorist!!!! at the end of the day if the motorist had made good observations David would be alive today, i bet non of the motorists on here have ever broken the speed limit!

PS i am an advanced bike rider, emergency blood bike rider and advanced car driver

Looking at the footage of the moyorcyclist speeding over, what I presume to be (as I am not a driver), no overtaking zones his driving style leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least.

What is the stopping distance for motorbike traveling at 97mph? Or is it not stated as it would not be legal to be driving at this speed.

97mph is approx 43 metres per second. Around 100 yards in 2 seconds, how the hell is the poor driver supposed to anticipate that?

According to this http://www.bikesafer.com/detail/braketime.html 476 feet at 95mph :shock:

 

[flying haggis]

why should the car driver be prosecuted? if you watch the speedo of the bike there was no attempt to slow when the car was starting to turn. whilst i feel sorry for the family, I think that doing that sort of speed on that section of A47 (a lousy road at the best of time) was irresponsible

 

[RogerS]

why should the car driver be prosecuted? if you watch the speedo of the bike there was no attempt to slow when the car was starting to turn. whilst i feel sorry for the family, I think that doing that sort of speed on that section of A47 (a lousy road at the best of time) was irresponsible

That's because the idiotic motorcyclist was going so damn fast that his reaction times weren't fast enough to do anything before the collision. I have zero sympathy with the motorcyclist. Wonder what speeds he rode at through town centres or down country lanes? He was driving like a prat. End of.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Bearing in mind that an object coming straight at you is very unlikely to attract your attention, he wasn't wearing anything particular Hi-Viz and he was riding like an idiot I'd say that whilst sad and all that he was kind of asking for trouble.
Riding at 97mph is a deliberate act and on that kind of road it's also a stupid act and an irresponsible one.
If a deer had jumped out in front of him we'd unanimously be saying it was his fault for riding too fast.
If a child had stepped out in front of him we'd be outraged at his reckless behaviour.
Because it's a car, sworn enemy of bikers in most cases we look for a scapegoat.
My sympathies are with all involved but especially the driver who now has the death of a young man on his conscience.

 

[RossJarvis]

There's no evidence of him "overtaking in no overtaking areas", it was a straight piece of road with a very clear view. regardless of the speed of the motorcyclist, at that particular point the car driver clearly should not have done what they did. That is why they were prosecuted. Had the motorcyclist anticipated more, then maybe he would still be alive. But just because he may have been well over the limit, this does not absolve the driver of making a very poor and dangerous decision. Had the motorcyclist been going at the speed limit I can't really see much difference in what the car driver would have done, and this would still have been a dangerous manoeuvre from the car driver.

 

[nanscombe]

I presumed that video that I watched was taken on several occasions not a on the same journey.

 

[Tom K]

A very unfortunate accident, was the silver car involved? Did it perchance slow to a stop or perhaps it was turning left.
The motorcyclist of course clearly saw the turning vehicle and attempted to ride around it rather than slowing it is a great pity he chose to ride in front of as opposed to behind the turning car.

 

[nanscombe]

There's no evidence of him "overtaking in no overtaking areas"...

Quite right, I just watched the video again, on a screen larger than an iPhone, and he just managed to get back on his side of the road before (what I presumed to be) the no overtaking portion.

...Had the motorcyclist anticipated more, then maybe he would still be alive. But just because he may have been well over the limit, this does not absolve the driver of making a very poor and dangerous decision. Had the motorcyclist been going at the speed limit I can't really see much difference in what the car driver would have done, and this would still have been a dangerous manoeuvre from the car driver.

Had the motorcyclist been travelling slower both would have had more time to think and anticipate, as I said previously he was moving at around 43 metres / second.

"One thousand ... two thousand ... thr..." and he would have travelled almost 100 metres.

... According to this http://www.bikesafer.com/detail/braketime.html 476 feet at 95mph :shock:

Speed 95 mph. Braking time: 5.6 seconds. Braking and reaction time: 6.22 seconds. Stopping distance: 476.18 feet (145 m)

Speed 50 mph. Braking time: 2.94 seconds. Braking and reaction time: 3.56 seconds. Stopping distance: 153.44 feet (46.76m)
Speed 60 mph. Braking time: 3.53 seconds. Braking and reaction time: 4.15 seconds. Stopping distance: 210.95 feet (64.29m)

 

[ColeyS1]

I guess the purpose of making the video available to the public was to raise awareness to the danger. Be it danger from a speeding motor bike or danger from speeding on a motor bike :| .... that sounds wrong, just getting behind a wheel is something we shouldn't take for granted. ....