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Dangerous? - chain blade in disc cutter

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sunnybob

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He has lost the tip of one finger, even if the others will recover eventually.
Was that name decision tempting fate?
 

Rorschach

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sunnybob":1frdp5mj said:
He has lost the tip of one finger, even if the others will recover eventually.
Was that name decision tempting fate?
I don't think he actually lost the tip in the end, at least I didn't see that in the pictures unless I missed something.
 

Trainee neophyte

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A disc grinder with a chainsaw disc - why not use a chainsaw? I don't find grinders very controllable, and with a chainsaw you can keep all the excitement at arm's length. I have done a bit of "sculpting" with my pruning saw, which is probably perfect for that kind of work - it's tiny and only weighs 3 kg: https://www.stihl.co.uk/STIHL-Products/ ... /tc-e.aspx
 

RobinBHM

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Ouch.

His explanation of being dealt with in a US hospital didnt fill me with joy.

I cant help but think in emergency situations it is nice to know we have the NHS.
 

Trevanion

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I think anyone who's ever run a chainsaw knows that cutting with the tip of the bar is incredibly dangerous and is the cause of most kickbacks with a chainsaw which usually results in head/shoulder injuries. This video is a prime example, don't worry, no blood or guts thanks to the chain brake on the saw:
[youtube]-Y6-eZRJaO8[/youtube]

Now, you take a chainsaw chain, put it on a round disc, and suddenly you have a cutting implement that's all chainsaw bar tip including the nasty kickbacks. Who's smart idea was that!?

As Stumpy mentioned, those Saburtooth blades are far safer. He was also fortunate the Dewalt grinder had a dead-mans switch on it too, nothing worse than a run-away machine flailing around when an accident happens.
 

sunnybob

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Rorschach":3feopl3w said:
sunnybob":3feopl3w said:
He has lost the tip of one finger, even if the others will recover eventually.
Was that name decision tempting fate?
I don't think he actually lost the tip in the end, at least I didn't see that in the pictures unless I missed something.
I often watch his shows. In a blog about the incident he said it was now difficult to type with the top of one finger missing.
 

Deadeye

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Interesting.
He doesn't mention his stance as a contributory factor. If you freeze at 2:49 you see he is essentially operating at 90o forward from normal operation. If he'd been behind as normal I think it would have been avoided.
 

Trevanion

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phil.p":qjxge2rk said:
Have you told the chainsaw carvers? :lol:
I did once! :lol:

He was a friend of mine and he explained to me that he always uses the chainsaw cutting below the centre line of the tip. Anything level or above the centre-line was likely to result in a kick-back. As evidenced by the video I posted above with the daft twazzock trying to put a hole in his ceiling, and head.
 

Rorschach

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sunnybob":3661skht said:
Rorschach":3661skht said:
sunnybob":3661skht said:
He has lost the tip of one finger, even if the others will recover eventually.
Was that name decision tempting fate?
I don't think he actually lost the tip in the end, at least I didn't see that in the pictures unless I missed something.
I often watch his shows. In a blog about the incident he said it was now difficult to type with the top of one finger missing.
I stand corrected, I guess I wasn't paying as much attention as I thought.
 

Stigmorgan

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Surely you only have to look at that disc to know no good will come of it. I don't even like using my chainsaw sometimes, at least it was a 4.5" disc and not a 9" disc I guess.
 

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Trevanion":1wnaok4j said:
I think anyone who's ever run a chainsaw knows that cutting with the tip of the bar is incredibly dangerous and is the cause of most kickbacks with a chainsaw which usually results in head/shoulder injuries. This video is a prime example, don't worry, no blood or guts thanks to the chain brake on the saw:
[youtube]-Y6-eZRJaO8[/youtube]

Now, you take a chainsaw chain, put it on a round disc, and suddenly you have a cutting implement that's all chainsaw bar tip including the nasty kickbacks. Who's smart idea was that!?

As Stumpy mentioned, those Saburtooth blades are far safer. He was also fortunate the Dewalt grinder had a dead-mans switch on it too, nothing worse than a run-away machine flailing around when an accident happens.
I'm on the chainsaw all day every day at the moment - good to have a reminder of how not to be dim. Almost all my cuts are done one-handed, too, as the other hand is needed to keep me in the tree. Here's one I like to use to keep things in perspective:
 

Suffolkboy

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Trevanion":1h2g42mr said:
phil.p":1h2g42mr said:
Have you told the chainsaw carvers? :lol:
I did once! :lol:

He was a friend of mine and he explained to me that he always uses the chainsaw cutting below the centre line of the tip. Anything level or above the centre-line was likely to result in a kick-back. As evidenced by the video I posted above with the daft twazzock trying to put a hole in his ceiling, and head.
https://www.husqvarna.com/uk/forest/whe ... with-bore/

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/chain ... ack#topic2

That is what I was taught. If you cut the bar nose in half lengthwise the top half of the bar is the kickback zone, the half of the nose on the pushing chain.

The bottom half of the nose of the bar the half on the pulling chain can be used for boring cuts etc.

In my last refresher the instructor told me they no longer teach that to new starters as it is considered a cut for more experienced operators although I'm not sure how that can be true. It's a really useful felling cut for a tree that is leaning, medium to large trees etc.

With chainsaw carving they have specialist bars that taper to a really small nose, this is to reduce the risk of kickback.
 

Rorschach

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Yosarian":woqcwlva said:
Is a tungsten carbide cutter any safer for power carving? Something like this https://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-c ... ter-951739

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Given the tooth profile I would say yes. I think the reason the chainsaw type is dangerous is not just the grabby nature but also the shape of the tooth is very aggressive. If you were to wear very thick leather gloves I think the carbide tooth in your link would not be so inclined to slice right through it, you would still get injured but I think it would be more blunt force and less chop chop.

I think some of the injury in the video could have been mitigated by a much thicker pair of gloves. When I do power carving and texturing I wear kevlar lined leather police gloves which are designed to be cut resistant, gloves like these would have mitigated some of the cutting force in the accident in the video, though I suspect there would still be damage it would not have been quite as bad.
 

Trevanion

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Yosarian":3s07gjq6 said:
Is a tungsten carbide cutter any safer for power carving?
The reason it would be safer is because of chip limitation, the shape of the cutter body you’ve shown limits the amount of material that can be removed in a single revolution, therefore minimising the amount of “snatch” possible. It’s the same principle as modern spindle moulder cutters.

I don’t think any of the chain type I’ve seen have got any limitation to the cut, so when they snatch, they snatch hard. Especially when they spin as fast as they do in a grinder.

I’m at an impasse with gloves though, on one hand they do offer protection from flying chips etc... on the other hand if a spinning cutter comes into contact with the glove surely it’s going to bite hard into the fabric, tangle up at 10000rpm, and cause more damage than if you just got a nick on bare skin? There’s plenty of case studies where wearing gloves has caused far worse accidents in the woodworking and metalworking industries from being pulled into machinery and cutters because of the gloves and losing a whole arm rather than the tip of a finger.
 

Droogs

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It really gets me how people don't use ppe, even when it is readily and cheaply available. All his problems would have been avoided if he had spent $20/£15
https://uk.banggood.com/Safety-Cut-Proo ... rehouse=CN

with the above and some heavy duty leather gloves, there is absolutely no excuse, it is just another example of the Americans general attitude to safety standards and their general disregard to the subject especially by their so called experts who tout the great knowledge online. Don't get me wrong I really like Stumpy's stuff but he should have known better.
 

Sean Hellman

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The arbotech tungstun carbide tip cutter, the one with the removable round cutting discs, is great I find it far more controllable than the arbo tech pressed chainsaw teeth style one. I would not really want to use anything but the arbotech industrial disc.

These tools are not for everyone and as seen can be very dangerous, so can an axe, I know a bloke, a tool proficient forester who cut his thumb clean off, I know people who have cut fingers off with chop saws, I know people who had to go to hospital and have surgery because they stabbed themselves with a chisel or knife. Would Stumpy say that these tools are unsafe and chuck them in the bin. I think not. Having watched the videos it was the way he presented the tool to the wood and the stupid angle he was holding it at, any kickback would dislodge his hand and he would lose control, whatever he says it was his fault. The tool was doing what the tool does.

I am glad that he did post this as it is another warning to take greater care, accidents happen and so far the worse case is a few steri strips when my hand was pulled over a router table and across the bit.
 

Osvaldd

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yikes, poor guy but as he himself admits, could've been a lot worse. Sounds like his visit at the hospital was more painful than the injury.
I had a bad time at the hospital myself recently with a torn quad muscle. Gave me some paracetamol and sent me home.
 
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