Dado's - This practice is UNSAFE.

[Anonymous]

so is it illegal to sell a table saw in the UK (or euorpean union) that can take a dado?

Or is it a health and safety requirement/standard for commercial woodies?

 

[Adam]

so is it illegal to sell a table saw in the UK (or euorpean union) that can take a dado?

Or is it a health and safety requirement/standard for commercial woodies?

Try a search of previous postings, its been quite thoroughly discussed. My uptake on the views is that European saws must come to a halt within a set time, so unless you have are a manufacturer prepared to make a saw with a dado-weight grade braking system, you must put a short arbour on.

Scheappch do a 'sort-of' dado blade, but it doesn't go as wide, nor does it have chippers.

Adam

 

[Woodythepecker]

Harry wrote:

As for the suggestion to use a radial arm saw i regard this machine as second to the spindle moulder in being dangerous. I have owned one for 20 years and tend to use it for cross cutting only and then rarely since buying a chop saw.

Yet using dado's is accepted with this machine. If you want to live dangerously use one for ripping. You are a braver man than me.

If the mods want to lock this topic i do understand as it is getting a little heated.

Who suggested using a radial arm saw? My tongue in cheek remark was " Now put them on a radial arm saw and they become a little safer"
In other words as there are a lot of people who think that the radial arm is one of the most dangerous machines in the shop, using these blades on a tablesaw must be dangerous, if using them on a radial arm saw is a little safer.

Why should the mods lock this topic? I cannot see that it is getting heated. The only thing that has been said is "troll" and this has been explained.

You cannot expect to post a topic such as yours and not get both strong and different views.
IMHO it is a very good post, if only to give advice to someone else who in the future may think about going down the same road.

Regards

Woody

 

[Anonymous]

If you are saying that according to the regs using a dado in a radial arm is safer than a table saw then I cannot argue because that is how I interpret the present situation. All I can say is that while my ideas on table saw use have stirred things up I would NEVER advocate using said dado in a radial arm saw.In my view it is just too scary. At least in a table saw 99% of the wobbly bits are underneath the table as opposed to spinning around in front of the operators nose. Also the correct guard for a r.a.s. looks a trifle tinny to me. I also disagree with the regs not allowing a jointer to be used for rebating as there is a safer machine to do it on.I.E. the spindle moulder.Please correct me if I have got this wrong but in an industrial enviornment if you have a spindle moulder with a power feed this may well be the case. In a home workshop I personally would prefer to use a jointer.There is risk with everything in woodworking as we all know but the point I was trying to get across was that the regs for industry may not in all cases be the regs for home. Also you have to take into account the price of domestic machinery. We cannot always afford what we would like to use.

 

[mahking51]

Jake
Pls explain troll reference, don't get it either, but I don't get out much...
Martin

 

[Anonymous]

Jake has already withdrawn the troll reference which was my fault really for being blase about an accident I recently suffered.I worded the remark badly in the first place so no explanations are required from my point of view. The reason for the accident was as follows. I was ripping a batch of 2 1/2 by 1in pieces down to 2 by 1 in. After each cut I reached for the offcut at the rear.For some reason that I will never be able to fathom I reached for the offcut at the FRONT of the machine.Don't tell me I know.35 years I have used various machinery but never before have I come close to this before.The sheer stupidity of what I did is more worrying than the result. I sawed through the fingernail and according to the x-ray chamfered the bone at a very reasonable 45 deg angle. Luckily it is healing far better than I thought it would. It has made me think before I switch any machine on. I try to approach a job more focused than I used to which is a good thing. Incidently no guard I know of could have helped.You live and learn.If your lucky.

 

[dickm]

I'd go along with all the comments suggesting that a stack of blades is not a good idea, and add one further. Because of the tooth overlap thing, it would be pretty impossible to tighten up the pack of blades without severely distorting the outermost ones, and probably not fully gripping the ones "inside". When this sandwich hit anything hard, lord knows what would happen, but a pretty severe kickback would seem highly likely.
Also puzzled why dados are claimed to be safer in RAS - but then RASs scare me rigid. At least a table saw blade stays in one place, where an RAS can jump, as a good friend's lack of two fingers will confirm.

 

[Mdotflorida]

Hi Harry

I think most things have been said, but just coming back to your original problem. I have a 5/8ths dado set. Dan Holton, (just search for details) imports woodwork products from the US and has these. Not cheap though.

Jeff

 

[Noel]

5/8th and 30mm also sold by the likes od Machine Mart etc. 2 Chipper Freud, £80(?) type.

Noel

 

[Anonymous]

In reply to dick m's message regarding tooth overlap I have found no difference in the way the blades overlap in the cheaper blades I tried as opposed to the freud dado set I have.I would also tentativly suggest that with blades being stacked together there is less chance of slipping due to more surface friction than with chippers. In my old dado set I have a chipper with a missing tooth which I did not notice while it was being used.
So the remarks about slippage I would say apply to any method of dado equally.

 

[Dewy]

You could either make s imle jig for cutting housings (dados) with a router or buy one ready made that can be used for both circular saws or routers.
The MAC mitre board from Canada was the highest selling tool in North America when it was first marketed and was priced at £40 here.
QVC have recently started selling a similar cheaper jig that is brightly coloured yellow and blue so you are bound to find it in the workshop.
They sell it as the True-Cut Circular Saw & Router Guide
It turns any hand held circular saw into a radial arm.
I have never fitted the mitre fence on mine but prefer it for cutting 90° saw or router cuts.
I started making a similar jig out of plywood with a longer back fence on which can be fitted stops on both sides for cutting housings, trenches or dados, depending on what you call them.
This is a lot safer than using dado blades in a table saw to achieve the same thing.

 

[SlimShavings]

If any of you come to the "colonies" for vacation. you can come stay at my house. I'll take you to the shop and show you dado's are not to be feared on a table saw or radial arm Then we'll drink your favoritie if we can find it
Sit in the rocker on the porch and listen to the whiperwills

 

[Philly]

Slim
A nice gesture! Actually, some of us have Unisaw type saws over here and happily use dado's (without killing ourselves :lol: ) Unfortunately, most of the table saws on sale in the UK are not suitable for dado's-they are not heavy duty enough. Due to dado's being frowned upon, and the fearsome forum battles when the "D" word is mentioned, most of us keep pretty quiet.
But the dado lives on... :lol:
The Nameless Dado User

 

[Alf]

I also use a 'Murican dado set-up for cutting housings and cross-grain rebates.

It's a Stanley #46 :wink: :lol:

Getting her coat, Alf

 

[Philly]

Groan...... :roll:
When I saw your name appear on the Dado thread I should of known..... :lol:
Philly
(Who is approaching 2000 posts!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[Jake]

Unfortunately, most of the table saws on sale in the UK are not suitable for dado's-they are not heavy duty enough.

I know you love your clone, but that's just nonsense, Philly. There is plenty of CE approved European machinery on the market that won't take a dado that is as heavy duty and more heavy duty than your saw or indeed any of the Woodford stuff. The real reason that the Xcalibur stuff can have a dado blade attached is because they are only UL and CSA approved, rather than being CE certified as any European manufacturer would have to do. CE certification means that an item is certified to be compliant with the relevant European Directives, in this case including the PUWER one. As Xcalibur haven't bothered to adapt the machines to be compliant, they can still take a dado blade.

Fine for home/hobby market, but I am surprised that Woodford even mention the word "professional" in connection with these saws. If a business bought non-CE certfied equipment I'd expect H&S to go ballistic, and in the event of an accident their insurers would take them to the cleaners.

[edit: I see Woodford actully qualify their description of into the meaningless phrase "semi-professional" for the Xcalibur gear, and reserve "professional" for far more expensive SICAR machinery, which appear to be CE approved judging from some of the model numbers]

 

[dedee]

and listen to the whiperwills

Slim,
I had to look this up (ok I'm at work and bored) Google coughs up very little on whiperwills. Is it a generic term for local birds or a local colloquialism for a specific species?

Andy

 

[RogerS]

or a local spelling :wink:

Try http://www.birdnature.com/jan1899/whippoorwill.html from one who has worked for US companies (East and West Coast) :lol:

 

[Alf]

Whippoorwill. As in "Meadow Serenade" from Strike Up the Band, which is how I knew. :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Philly]

Jake
Well, my 2000'th post here on UK Workshop! \/
And what do you know? Yes, its the dado thing again...... :roll: :lol:
I'm not going to get into this again-search the forum for all sorts of opinions, most of them strong ones.
If you are ever in my part of the country you are very welcome to pop in and have a look at my saw. When I say heavy duty I mean HEAVY DUTY. CE regs and H+S exec rules aside (and the more you look into it, the more you see that dado's are NOT illegal) a dado head in a saw made to take one, used sensibly with a shop made guard is as safe as using a router table, bandsaw or any other power tool. And this I speak from EXPERIENCE. Remember the "E" word. A lot is spoken about dado's on Internet forums, not a lot of it involves the "E" word.
Speaking to Woodford, the majority of these saws go to the trade. Probably 'cos they are great saws at a great price. Really, how much of a table saws life is spent cutting dado's? My saw, probably 1%. The whole "Dado" subject is just a great way to get people excited..... :lol: :twisted:
End of the day-work with the tools you have, within their limits. Work safe-have fun!
Philly