Dado cutters..

[seaco]

As far as I'm aware it is perfectly legal to use a dado head in the UK as long as it's for private use and not commercially other wise companies selling them would be in trouble, I have a Delta Unisaw and use a Freud dado set and it works really well but it does take a little time to set up probably as long as a router table but what I will say is it's a lot quicker than a router if you have a fair bit of trenching to do I can do a 2" trench in oak 1/2" wide in one pass try that with a router!

A dado is only as dangerous as the operator using it!

Look here: http://woodfordwm.co.uk/acatalog/Table_Saws1.html

 

[paultnl]

Now I am able to make the link
http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.co.uk/T ... fault.aspx

 

[Alf]

So ancient is this thread that I don't think either Woodford of the Great British Woodshop even existed at the time; fairly sure there were more recent discussions that are probably a bit more accurate in their information. At one time we used to have them just about daily.

 

[Steve Maskery]

At one time we used to have them just about daily.

Ah, yes, I remember them fondly. But nostalgia isn't what it used to be, eh?
S

 

[tomatwark]

This conversation does seem to come up alot, it is legal to sell dado heads in the UK because they can be fitted to radial arm saws as well as a saw bench.

Scheppach sell trenching heads to fit their saws.

If you are using it in a saw bench you are susposed to guard it properly, which makes most of the things Norm does illegal with in industry.

Most commercial workshops have other ways of doing things which is easier to set up

If you want to copy Norm in your home workshop it is your business, but I suspect that one day someone who saw Norm do this will cut something off and try to sue Sky and the s**t will hit the fan.

Remember the Americans will not look at this issue too closely as they seem to think Saw Stop will solve all their safety problems.

Being in business I don't use a dado in a saw bench, although I do have one for my RAS.

Tom

 

[Steve Maskery]

FWIW I have shot a few sequences which discuss the problems of using dado sets. I'm not advertising it as I shall be lucky if it is ready for christmas let alone any sooner, but in brief:
Dados heads are a not illegal.
The problems are their guarding and breaking times, so if their use in a commercial workshop means that these other rules are broken, then that's what makes their use illegal, not the tools themselves.
I got the HSE to endorse my dado head guarding arrangements, and on a saw like mine (I, too, have the Woodford Xcalibur) then the weight of the blade is such a small percentage of the weight of the whole rotating mass of motor that the thing stops inside 10 secs even fully loaded. That would not necessarily be the case with a less massive saw.
Given the time it takes to set up the head, make the cuts and revert the saw to its initial mode, there is almost always an easier, quicker and safer way of achieving the same end result, usually involving a router and a jig. This is especially true in the home workshop where we are not doing production runs and so the setup time is high compared to the time spent actually cutting housings.

S

 

[tomatwark]

As this seems to come up every now and then, normally I guess when there is a rerun of the Great British Workshop or The New Yankee Workshop.

If you are willing Steve maybe locked thread is in order with the in's and out's of using one.

As I have said before I amazed that no one has had a nasty accident copying some of things Norm does on the NYW.

Just a thought

Tom

 

[seaco]

Given the time it takes to set up the head, make the cuts and revert the saw to its initial mode, there is almost always an easier, quicker and safer way of achieving the same end result.
S

Agreed if your doing small runs but for removing large amounts of wood quickly on a larger run you won't beat a dado I'm afraid four runs on a router can be done in one pass!

 

[Alf Beharie]

I found this thread when searching for dado cutters. I have just rang Scheppach and was told that whilst stacked dado cutters are legal for use within the entire EU (which includes the UK of course) they no longer make saws that can use them because they all have reduced length arbours. However they told me that "wobble" dado cutters are definitely illegal within the EU. Wobble cutters are where you have two blades that can be splayed at an angle to each other on a common arbour (Their teeth are close together at one point and 180 degrees away they are spread apart) and the cutting width can be varied via a variable dial in the centre which alters the splay angle...Norm Abrams showed one on his 2 part table saw guide for his New Yankee Workshop show. You can find both parts on youtube. Why one type is legal and the other is not?...I have no idea.

 

[custard]

Why one type is legal and the other is not?...I have no idea.

I've heard that wobble saws have a greater risk of kick back, I've only used them a few times so don't have much practical experience. I see them used regularly on spindle moulders for grooving.

Incidentally I use a Felder saw which is as European as Weiner Schnitzel, and that takes a dado blade as standard with no alterations. Indeed Felder were happy to provide me with both a dado blade and a table insert to match, and I doubt they're the kind of company that goes in for reckless law breaking!

 

[Steve Maskery]

I don't know why a wobble blade is illegal, I didn't know it was, but the issue with dado blades is twofold.

First, they are more difficult to guard. Not impossible, a SUVA guard does the job, but most saws do not come with a SUVA guard. What usually happens is that the guard and RK are removed and the saw is used unguarded. That is not illegal (stupid, but not illegal) in a home workshop, but it is illegal in a professional workspace.

The second is blade braking. The blade must stop within 10 seconds. On a small saw, the extra mass of a full dado stack means that the increased momentum takes the braking time over this. On a more substantial saw, like my Xcalibur, the increased mass is a small proportion of the total rotating mass, so my saw still stops in less than 7 seconds, even with a full stack.

HTH
Steve

 

[brianhabby]

Dado sets are still sold with the Excalibur saws that Steve mentioned and are are available from Woodford in Stockport.

regards

Brian

 

[heimlaga]

Maybe this is a similar case as the inspector who demanded CE- approval on my machines even though they are manufactured before the EU was invented and all guards are modernized to fullfill every modern requirement. By reading the law in a way that makes every kind of work illegal they make sure no accidents can do any harm to their own carreers. Being efficient in finding and stopping allegedly illegal work also helps them on their way up the carreer ladder.

Be it legal or not I like my fingers too much to ever own a table saw with the guard mounted on the riving knife. If there isn't a proper overarm guard I make one. Be it legal or not I would never own a table saw where the riving knife protrudes above the top of the blade just because it would be removed too often. A removed riving knife does not prewent kickbacks.
I could imagine owning and using a dado blade if the braking mechanism is strong enough to stop it within 10 seconds. I assume that would be legal if the riving knife and overarm guard are in place the way I want them. I have just never needed a dado head. So far I don't make many enough carcasses with dadoes for the shelves to make it worth the cost of a dado head. When grooving along the grain my spindle moulder does the job.

 

[Alf Beharie]

Maybe this is a similar case as the inspector who demanded CE- approval on my machines even though they are manufactured before the EU was invented and all guards are modernized to fullfill every modern requirement. By reading the law in a way that makes every kind of work illegal they make sure no accidents can do any harm to their own carreers. Being efficient in finding and stopping allegedly illegal work also helps them on their way up the carreer ladder.

Be it legal or not I like my fingers too much to ever own a table saw with the guard mounted on the riving knife. If there isn't a proper overarm guard I make one. Be it legal or not I would never own a table saw where the riving knife protrudes above the top of the blade just because it would be removed too often. A removed riving knife does not prewent kickbacks.
I could imagine owning and using a dado blade if the braking mechanism is strong enough to stop it within 10 seconds. I assume that would be legal if the riving knife and overarm guard are in place the way I want them. I have just never needed a dado head. So far I don't make many enough carcasses with dadoes for the shelves to make it worth the cost of a dado head. When grooving along the grain my spindle moulder does the job.

I agree, why use a dado cutter when I have a perfectly good router table that can do the same thing only more safely.