Coronavirus Infected Mail And Parcels.

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NHS England isn't doing a good impression of having found any clues recently. Most of the innovation has come from the local teams right up against it.

My wife's practice has had several cases amongst the medical staff, all of whom have been mild and they have apparently recovered and are back at work*.

Everyone is now wearing scrubs. She takes two sets in daily - wearing a clean set into work in the car, changing out of those worn at the end of the day & driving home in tomorrow's set. Today's go straight in the wash (machine right by the back door). This is instead of changing into ordinary clothes at the surgery, so that those don't have to be washed at 60 deg C. (we couldn't keep replacing destroyed personal clothes, and anyway where would we buy them now?).

She spent a few hours on her day off turning up the trouser hems on three sets of scrubs (thankfully she has a good sewing machine), as nothing was available close to her size (even now she looks like she's in a baggy Punjabi suit!). They don't have sufficient face shields still, so she is relying on her glasses for protection (with a surgical mask) if she sees patients face-to-face.

They have been well ahead of many other Bristol practices in their precautions, but the others are belatedly catching up. The death of a Bristol bus driver yesterday has reminded everyone how serious it is, and a care home we regularly walk past (exercise routine) now has several Covid19 cases, probably with many more infected. We have a friend there, and the outlook is not good.

Being immuno-compromised myself, I was waiting for a letter/whatever about 12-week purdah, but it never arrived. Instead, I got a text yesterday, written as though it came from my practice, telling me to wait until I am five months overdue for a regular injection before asking for it (i.e. almost six months altogether). It also suggested there were oral substitutes I might buy over the counter (abbreviated to "OTC" - I had to guess that)!

It's hard to know where to begin with this particular shambles but here's a few points:
  • The practice didn't send it, NHS England did, without properly filtering the addressee list.
  • Some of the practice staff knew about it, but not those answering the 'phones.
  • I have injections because I cannot absorb this chemical through the gut (to be fair this is unusual, but if NHSE want to interfere in my treatment, they should know that!). Nothing over the counter would help in any way.
  • Furthermore, without the injections, I will eventually die prematurely (OK it would take a while, but I'd probably become critically ill around the 6-month mark!).

This is exactly the sort of thing they should be leaving to practices, who know their own patients.

Meanwhile they have hospitals where the oxygen line pressures are far too low for the quantity of respirators they need (hard to fix as capacity was designed into the distribution systems - gotta live the Private Finance Initiatives of the 1990s!), and the aircons have to be turned off because there is no filtration built in, which in turn is exhausting the medical staff.

In any case, Air Products, BOC, et al, are working flat out to meet demand - they may not have capacity to meet the peak either, and LOX is dangerous stuff for tired drivers and production workers to handle... too many government departments seem to be relying on crossed fingers right now.

E.

*one reports no sense of smell returning, even after several weeks.
 
Just4Fun":3mk7m3y0 said:
MikeG.":3mk7m3y0 said:
On the other hand, we can act on our own account with impunity. Obviously we will do everything in our power to make sure we don't spread the bug, but as for worrying about our own safety, the advantage we've gained through having survived the damn thing is that we don't have to disinfect anything, nor worry about someone sneezing on us.
Have you seen anything to definitely confirm that? Much as we would all like it to be true I have only seen vague wording that leaves the possibility open either way. The American CDC says:
There are no data concerning the possibility of re-infection with SARS-CoV-2 after recovery from COVID-19.
That web page was updated on 3 April, so it is reasonably current. Were I you I would continue to exercise all care until your superpower status is confirmed.
The reason it is worded that way is that there is no proof that reinfection has occurred. The fact that there is no evidence (other than the odd anecdotal account) for reinfection doesn't mean that it could be happening all the time. If it was, we'd have seen many reinfections in the hundreds of thousands that have already recovered.

I think MikeG is safe in his assumptions. Although it is a new virus, it is still a Coronavirus, and your immune systems way of beating these viruses is to successfully manufacturer antibodies to defeat it.
 
Eric The Viking":1pu59b0b said:
.... I was waiting for a letter/whatever ..... telling me to wait until I am five months overdue for a regular injection before asking for it (i.e. almost six months altogether). It also suggested there were oral substitutes I might buy over the counter (abbreviated to "OTC" - I had to guess that)!

......
I got a letter but it was from my surgery saying that Northumberland NHS Trust had taken guidance on regular B12 jabs and that if they were stopped that there was enough B12 stored in the liver for six months ....no exceptions. So don't ring us up to get one and try claiming 'extenuating circumstances for there are none'.

I immediately thought of you ! Good luck as I know how important they are to you.
 
Bodgers":1krxi91h said:
Just4Fun":1krxi91h said:
MikeG.":1krxi91h said:
On the other hand, we can act on our own account with impunity. Obviously we will do everything in our power to make sure we don't spread the bug, but as for worrying about our own safety, the advantage we've gained through having survived the damn thing is that we don't have to disinfect anything, nor worry about someone sneezing on us.
Have you seen anything to definitely confirm that? Much as we would all like it to be true I have only seen vague wording that leaves the possibility open either way. The American CDC says:
There are no data concerning the possibility of re-infection with SARS-CoV-2 after recovery from COVID-19.
That web page was updated on 3 April, so it is reasonably current. Were I you I would continue to exercise all care until your superpower status is confirmed.
The reason it is worded that way is that there is no proof that reinfection has occurred. The fact that there is no evidence (other than the odd anecdotal account) for reinfection doesn't mean that it could be happening all the time. If it was, we'd have seen many reinfections in the hundreds of thousands that have already recovered.

I think MikeG is safe in his assumptions. Although it is a new virus, it is still a Coronavirus, and your immune systems way of beating these viruses is to successfully manufacturer antibodies to defeat it.

The other thing that's worth noting is that all of the researchers (whether they've called it 8 strains or 27) have said that it is an exceptionally slow-mutating virus. This is in the favor of anyone who gets past it.

The test accuracy isn't supposedly that great, and I'm sure viral load fluctuates for patients from day to day, and may fluctuate during the day (why is fever generally higher at the end of the day than early, is that a response to viral load? who knows? Not covid specific, I mean fevers in general - most folks with kids will learn that you can be lulled by a low morning temperature only to see it returns.

We just had a work conference call, and though some of the items at work require professional judgement (codified literally in standards), I notice that most people want to say "OK, so our rule will be if it's not more than X%, we're not doing anything further". OK, the standard will say that. The professional involved should direct their subordinates based on each case.

Handling covid is much the same way. I have asthma - I have no clue if I'm at risk, but at this point, I'd take a little swab of a low viral load to the inner cheek as the people who end up poor off statistically seem to be those exposed to a lot of it in the air (e.g., prior comment about washington state nursing home workers getting a hospitalization rate of 50% here despite the total population - which includes older individuals than the average hospital workers - getting in the hospital at a 15% rate).

The guidance here seems to be tending toward my suspicion, that hand-face, etc, transmission from items like mail is probably not much of a risk. We've relaxed a little. However, we are not going to stand in a small enclosed essential business that's crowded because high viral load could remain in the air for minutes or hours. If we lived with someone at risk, we'd be wiping down everything still.

It's probably good policy to resist the urge if you're not taking precautions to call someone prissy or overcautious (you may find out why they are), and resist the urge if you're dealing with someone at risk to tell some average middle age person with no risk "you're going to die!!!".
 
Bodgers":2l2ruxka said:
Just4Fun":2l2ruxka said:
MikeG.":2l2ruxka said:
On the other hand, we can act on our own account with impunity. Obviously we will do everything in our power to make sure we don't spread the bug, but as for worrying about our own safety, the advantage we've gained through having survived the damn thing is that we don't have to disinfect anything, nor worry about someone sneezing on us.
Have you seen anything to definitely confirm that? Much as we would all like it to be true I have only seen vague wording that leaves the possibility open either way. The American CDC says:
There are no data concerning the possibility of re-infection with SARS-CoV-2 after recovery from COVID-19.
That web page was updated on 3 April, so it is reasonably current. Were I you I would continue to exercise all care until your superpower status is confirmed.
The reason it is worded that way is that there is no proof that reinfection has occurred. The fact that there is no evidence (other than the odd anecdotal account) for reinfection doesn't mean that it could be happening all the time. If it was, we'd have seen many reinfections in the hundreds of thousands that have already recovered.

I think MikeG is safe in his assumptions. Although it is a new virus, it is still a Coronavirus, and your immune systems way of beating these viruses is to successfully manufacturer antibodies to defeat it.

'Coronavirus patients in South Korea are now testing positive for the virus a second time, health officials are warning, following similar reports in other countries.'
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... b3QtN1jSjY
 
The likelihood is that the tests are at fault, not that someone has lost immunity in a few weeks. A false negative would do that. Also, from my experience, this thing flares up even a week after you've thought it was gone, and that could easily lead to people thinking they'd caught it again. My wife is having a pretty bad day today, but has been fine for 4 or 5 days previously.
 
I am not happy with my post man at all, yesterday he knocked on the door saying 'don't be scared, it's just the postman' he was just there in my face, no attempt at social distancing, he handed me a carboard box with the bandsaw blade in it, I want them to make more of an effort to take a few steps back ffs, I won't be going to the door again if he does that, thinking of reporting him to be honest, it's hardly making an effort, he could have left it on the doorstep and walked away but didn't bother :shock: although I am grateful to have received my new tuffsaws blade, do you think I am over reacting?
 
thetyreman":3hk596gx said:
I am not happy with my post man at all, yesterday he knocked on the door saying 'don't be scared, it's just the postman' he was just there in my face, no attempt at social distancing, he handed me a carboard box with the bandsaw blade in it, I want them to make more of an effort to take a few steps back ffs, I won't be going to the door again if he does that, thinking of reporting him to be honest, it's hardly making an effort, he could have left it on the doorstep and walked away but didn't bother :shock: although I am grateful to have received my new tuffsaws blade, do you think I am over reacting?

Next time, have a bout of fake coughing when you open the door. That'll do it.
 
MikeG.":3fz1d6x5 said:
The likelihood is that the tests are at fault, not that someone has lost immunity in a few weeks. A false negative would do that. Also, from my experience, this thing flares up even a week after you've thought it was gone, and that could easily lead to people thinking they'd caught it again. My wife is having a pretty bad day today, but has been fine for 4 or 5 days previously.
Don't know why I liked that one Mike - I meant I hope you're right, but sorry your wife's not so good today.
 
RogerS":2bzzrex0 said:
thetyreman":2bzzrex0 said:
I am not happy with my post man at all, yesterday he knocked on the door saying 'don't be scared, it's just the postman' he was just there in my face, no attempt at social distancing, he handed me a carboard box with the bandsaw blade in it, I want them to make more of an effort to take a few steps back ffs, I won't be going to the door again if he does that, thinking of reporting him to be honest, it's hardly making an effort, he could have left it on the doorstep and walked away but didn't bother :shock: although I am grateful to have received my new tuffsaws blade, do you think I am over reacting?

Next time, have a bout of fake coughing when you open the door. That'll do it.

I'm not sure with this guy, he's definitely a bit of a nutter :D it wouldn't surprise me if he still didn't take a step back.
 
Pin a note to the door, or inside a front window, asking for deliveries to be left on the doorstep after ringing the bell.
 
Chris152":upw7w2ju said:
MikeG.":upw7w2ju said:
The likelihood is that the tests are at fault, not that someone has lost immunity in a few weeks. A false negative would do that. Also, from my experience, this thing flares up even a week after you've thought it was gone, and that could easily lead to people thinking they'd caught it again. My wife is having a pretty bad day today, but has been fine for 4 or 5 days previously.
Don't know why I liked that one Mike - I meant I hope you're right, but sorry your wife's not so good today.

I knew what you meant, Chris. :) She's much better this evening. The point is, this damn disease just doesn't go away quietly. It doesn't seem to know when it's been beaten.
 
I've stopped reading elsewhere about Covid-19. There's so many fake news stories. So many fake YouTube videos. Axes to grind. Doctor A says this...but doctor A turns out to be a vet. Doctor B says that....etc.

Philosophy...head down, wash hands, and curse all those who break the social-distancing rules and wish them an early grave. That's hyperbole, by the way.

Even on here you get some really strange 'world-views'....as in

It's only the flu
.... therefore
There was no need for the lockdown
....therefore
I would still be selling trinkets to the rich
 
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