Construction question...

[RogerS]

I can't make up my mind whether the front is simply either a solid panel (or solid groundwork and veneered) with plant-on mouldings OR a solid panel cut out and the central panel set back and the mouldings used to give detail to the surround. If you click on the picture then it opens full size in a new browser window.

What does the team think?

 

[Jacob]

Veneered isn't it?
Clock?

 

[dickm]

Certainly looks like it's veneered. But it also looks as if the grain could be continuous between the centre panel and the surrounding outside the moulding. So possibly one leaf of veneer was used for both? Presumably it's the old 1/16" plus thick veneer?
But whatever, it's a super piece.

 

[Digit]

Which ever, it's a nice looking piece.

Roy.

 

[AndyT]

Certainly looks like it's veneered. But it also looks as if the grain could be continuous between the centre panel and the surrounding outside the moulding. So possibly one leaf of veneer was used for both? Presumably it's the old 1/16" plus thick veneer?
But whatever, it's a super piece.

+1
One piece of veneer - the cracks show that it is veneer; the grain pattern shows that it is one piece right across. The moulded frame is just planted on afterwards.

 

[dickm]

The moulded frame is just planted on afterwards.

I wonder? Doesn't somehow feel right to glue on top of veneer. At least, don't think I've ever seen it done. But obviously a lot easier than cutting a trench/cutting the veneer to size to glue the moulding to the ground.

 

[Jacob]

The moulded frame is just planted on afterwards.

I wonder? Doesn't somehow feel right to glue on top of veneer. .......

It wouldn't be glued, it'd be pinned, into the frame, not the panel, in the usual way.

 

[RogerS]

The moulded frame is just planted on afterwards.

I wonder? Doesn't somehow feel right to glue on top of veneer. .......

It wouldn't be glued, it'd be pinned, into the frame, not the panel, in the usual way.

What frame, Jacob? Consensus seems to be that it is a single piece of veneer on groundwork...no frame.

 

[Jacob]

I wonder? Doesn't somehow feel right to glue on top of veneer. .......

It wouldn't be glued, it'd be pinned, into the frame, not the panel, in the usual way.

What frame, Jacob? Consensus seems to be that it is a single piece of veneer on groundwork...no frame.

Isn't it a conventional frame & panel but both veneered?
If it is just one veneered panel the mouldings would still be pinned and not glued (I'm guessing).

 

[RogerS]

Understand what you're saying.

It is very hard to tell from the photos but my sense is that the centre panel is coplanar to the outer 'frame' and also if you look at the grain and cracks then they do seem to 'flow' underneath the moulding. Which suggests that it is a single veneered panel onto which the moulding is fixed (pinned or glued).

Looking at other pictures of the construction of the piece show it to be relatively 'crude' compared to how we might do things today. Maybe with all our routers etc we look to 'over-complicate' ? This is an antique piece. Late 18th c.

 

[Jacob]

Understand what you're saying.

It is very hard to tell from the photos but my sense is that the centre panel is coplanar to the outer 'frame' and also if you look at the grain and cracks then they do seem to 'flow' underneath the moulding. Which suggests that it is a single veneered panel onto which the moulding is fixed (pinned or glued).

Dunno just had another look - I reckon it could be raised

Looking at other pictures of the construction of the piece show it to be relatively 'crude' compared to how we might do things today. Maybe with all our routers etc we look to 'over-complicate' ? This is an antique piece. Late 18th c.

It's not the routers which over complicate it's the mystification or idealisation of woodwork, brought about by Arts n Crafts, Cotswold School and other influences. Still strongly with us - just listen to the quasi religious gibberings of the toolies :lol:
But in the meantime there has always been a huge mainstream body of work being done by intelligent and practical people, with many shortcuts to optimise the value of the work done. This may result in crude details, especially behind/underneath etc, where it doesn't matter one bit!

 

[CHJ]

I have sitting in my hall a large Blanket Chest made by my great grandfather for my mother and father as a wedding present.
He was an engine driver in a saw mill.
It is made from full width solid panels of some species of soft wood about 1" thick.
When I inherited it I had to replace the foot rails because of worm infestation.
On stripping things down I removed the simple flat (2"x1/4") cover strips (pinned on) which form frames around the corners to find the whole thing is fixed together with 5" oval nails.
The thing is as solid today as the day it was made and I defy anybody viewing it to determine that it is anything but a fancily jointed construction.

(Can't post image not at base at the moment.)

Since the refurb I often wonder when looking at imposing veneered furniture how the carcase is constructed.

 

[Jacob]

....
On stripping things down I removed the simple flat (2"x1/4") cover strips (pinned on) which form frames around the corners to find the whole thing is fixed together with 5" oval nails.
The thing is as solid today as the day it was made ........

Brilliant!
The secret of nailing like that is to pre-drill. Turns a nail into a sophisticated fixing device with many advantages over, say, dominoes, but it will never catch on (again).

 

[Woodwould]

I believe the substrate would be a single pine (or possibly oak) board which is veneered with a single leaf of veneer. The plinth is all wrong and has been replaced/added to at some stage. I suspect the applied moulding on the panel was added at the same time to jolly it up to Victorian tastes.

 

[srp]

I would say it is a conventional frame and panel construction. The panel would be rebated at the edges so that when it was fitted into the grooves in the stiles and rails it all ends up as a flush face. The veneering would be done before assembly of course, with the veneers all cut from one leaf. Beads nailed on afterwards as Jacob says.
If the background was just one solid piece, the cracks in the central part of the veneer would run right through to the edges. They don't, so there must be a break under the bead.