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construction of a built in cabinet

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sometimewoodworker

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@sometimewoodworker I know what you mean about the weight of the back panel. I would obviously need to rustle up some help lifting that top section in to place.

what concerns me about a 6mm back panel is just how floppy they can be. since I will want to screw the cabinet though the back and into the wall in some places. i feel like the thin back wont have much pull. plus the thicker back can be countersunk and plugged with matching wood to hide screw fixings.
I was actually talking about the weight of the whole unit. As to attaching the unit to the wall lateral thinking is your friend.

Either put the back into a groove then you can have enough to put a cleat behind the panel giving enough thickness to screw through, put a deep rabbit again leaving enough to add cleats and screw through or better still instead of a cleat use a french cleat glued to the back so avoiding any need for screws from the front.

Like this. This is just shop storage so I didn’t bother to finish the ends but the principal is the same
9306DA0E-9E74-461A-9D8F-7114984F39A1.jpeg
B0E50DE8-82CD-4FED-96C3-FBC760923916.jpeg


or this
27444CF5-8CD5-4C39-B13D-1F8067AA986D.jpeg
EBDDB029-206C-4816-B1EC-6E002EC35263.jpeg


also I used 3mm ply and with a cleat on the back even that is plenty strong enough, for me 6mm is overkill
 

Stokes&co

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Hi mate just to add to and echo what some people have said above you are making things far harder for yourself with the construction method you’ve described above, your also setting yourself up for a worse finish.

By far the easiest is to build as three cabs and butt together. Then have side scribes at 38mm and a top scribe at 38mm and then a plinth (set back or flush) or skirting running along the bottom. Have two side panels scribed into the wall around the door.

Make the cabinets with backs, go for 13mm as a minimum as it’s nice and strong and will help squaring etc, 19mm is probably overkill.

If the 19mm running round is a design feature they absolutely must have then make the face frames/scribes out of 20mm material and butt those together too to achieve that look. I did this recently on a kitchen as that’s what they wanted and it looked smart. You could also make them at 38 and run a saw kerf as a shadow gap down the middle.

The reason you are making so much work is that there is potential if the wall is wonky donkey which it absolutely will be to have to scribe every shelf and upright into the wall. With a back and a face frame you walk in with them all pre built in the workshop (bring a mate for the carry) you set your ladder frames level on the floor, plonk the two cabs on top, fix the middle one In between by whatever method you like, side scribe, side scribe, top scribe, plinth/skirt scribe then side panels scribed and you are done. The back takes out any potential problems.

I hope that all makes sense mate let me know if not!

(I should add that from a personal aesthetic preference point of view which is of course an opinion It all running around in just 19mm doesn’t look very good and speaks to me of cheap mdf kind of work, if I was being forced to make it look like that I’d up the 19mm to 22 or probably 25mm to be honest I just think it would look better. I think a nicely face framed piece would look better than 25 also but it does depend a bit on the style and rest of the home, ie country house definitely face frame, modern flat as a room divider maybe in 25mm).
 

reck123

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Hi mate just to add to and echo what some people have said above you are making things far harder for yourself with the construction method you’ve described above, your also setting yourself up for a worse finish.

By far the easiest is to build as three cabs and butt together. Then have side scribes at 38mm and a top scribe at 38mm and then a plinth (set back or flush) or skirting running along the bottom. Have two side panels scribed into the wall around the door.

Make the cabinets with backs, go for 13mm as a minimum as it’s nice and strong and will help squaring etc, 19mm is probably overkill.

If the 19mm running round is a design feature they absolutely must have then make the face frames/scribes out of 20mm material and butt those together too to achieve that look. I did this recently on a kitchen as that’s what they wanted and it looked smart. You could also make them at 38 and run a saw kerf as a shadow gap down the middle.

The reason you are making so much work is that there is potential if the wall is wonky donkey which it absolutely will be to have to scribe every shelf and upright into the wall. With a back and a face frame you walk in with them all pre built in the workshop (bring a mate for the carry) you set your ladder frames level on the floor, plonk the two cabs on top, fix the middle one In between by whatever method you like, side scribe, side scribe, top scribe, plinth/skirt scribe then side panels scribed and you are done. The back takes out any potential problems.

I hope that all makes sense mate let me know if not!

(I should add that from a personal aesthetic preference point of view which is of course an opinion It all running around in just 19mm doesn’t look very good and speaks to me of cheap mdf kind of work, if I was being forced to make it look like that I’d up the 19mm to 22 or probably 25mm to be honest I just think it would look better. I think a nicely face framed piece would look better than 25 also but it does depend a bit on the style and rest of the home, ie country house definitely face frame, modern flat as a room divider maybe in 25mm).
Thanks for the feedback and really usefull to get perspectives. I am limited to 19mm thickness veneered board from suppliers here in germany otherwise I agree that would be a bit better to use slightly thicker stock. the design that was sent me has specific shelf sizing to fit storage boxs they already have.

the same with the veneered backs I can either use that same 19mm blockboard or a 5/6mm veneered ply, nothing in the middle which leads me to believe the 19mm back is better.

even with using the 19mm thickness sides its a very tight squeeze on the right hand side to get those dimensions /shelves boxes that the customer asked for .

I see what you mean about simplifying installation having three competed boxes with and just butting the edges together, then attaching face frames.

I would feel more comfortable attaching edging in the workshop. though i guess it can be prepped so it fits well then brought to site to pin in place.

I made a quick drawing of this to get a visual. since the sides of the panels in the door way are not covered by a wall. I assume I would have to create some kind of frame that would get glued, pinned in place so it doesnt look odd having 1,9cm overhanging.

since the doors are inset it would be better having this overhang on the outside so i dont need to put additional spacers in the boxs to mount hinges and bring them flush with the edges.

thick edging.jpg


38mm ledge.jpg



I think the framed thicker outside looks quite nice definitely looks a bit more country house like you described. . with the thicker frame the dimensions of the box's would need to change.

in some ways since the 19mm lipped version is going to have lots of inset doors in each box maybe the thickness of the sides doesn't matter as much and could look more modern, which their apartment is.

definitely giving me something to think about.
 

Stokes&co

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Hi reck ahh I see that’s all understood and seems reasonable. It sounds a tricky one if they’ve given you very specific dimensions for what they are putting in it and also having two walls either side governing you so I suppose in the end that’s going to have to rule your decision making.

Definitely go for a 19mm back if that’s the case far better. If i were doing it I pretty much use veneered poplar ply, way better than veneer mdf and not as expensive as birch veneer ply (although the birch is far nicer). Having said that sheet prices are bloody mental at the moment so I’d also get a price on materials to do it in solid wood full stave furniture board it would be fairly similar and I’d try and sell the value of the solid wood.

I think you may of misunderstood what I meant by side panels going into the door, because this negates what you are saying about building a frame there (although that might be a nice design detail). I’d basically bring each side cabinet in from the walls either side by 19mm (space plug for gap or packers) the 38mm front face frame would then cover that 19mm gap and the 19mm edge of the carcass. In the door side the face frame covers the edge of the carcass and the edge of my side panel which is scribed into the wall around the door. In this scenario you don’t have to pack any hinges out or anything as all the face frames are just flush to the edge of the carcass. I hope that makes better sense and apologies for maybe being confusing.

Completely agree with you about being wearing of fixing stuff on site, the best way to do the face frames would be to lamello clamex them on if you’ve got access to one of those. Alternatively if you domino them on and a bit of grab adhesive, imo they are never going anywhere. You obviously want to avoid visible fixings and pin holes etc wherever possible.

Anyway I suppose what I’m saying is basically make sure the construction method allows you to be as efficient on site as possible, 1 hour in the workshop is worth 2 or 3 on site messing about so aim to minimise site time whatever way you go.

Looks like you are on the right track and will do a brilliant job though mate. All the best with it!
 

reck123

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Thanks @Stokes&co i'm going to offer two aternatives to them the 19mm framless version and the faceframe version albeit with different size grid and see which one they go for.

the sheet good im looking to use is veenered blockboard which seems pretty common here in germany. i've used it a couple of times before and whilst not hardwood it seemed pretty decent though the commercial veneers on them are dangerously thin.

understand what you mean now about the spacing from the panel to the wall :)

thanks again for the great feedback
 

reck123

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Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to chime back in here again with two different constuction methods of this shelving system and which one would you think would be the best way to go.
View attachment 122153


I have access to a lamello zeta and am going to use the clamex connectors joining the shelves to the verticals. As i am going to assemble this shelf in three sections which can later be connected together on site I have two different approaches and im not sure which one to choose.
View attachment 122154
the first would be to assemble the run of shelves and then add a seperate bridge which connects the two flush meeting at the top edges. then the long run of cabinets would sit on top of this.

down side to this would maybe be that the top each vertical piece would have visible joint lines where the shelves meet the top of the verticals.

think doors will be going here so not such an issue.



the second option would be assembling the two vertical cabinets and leaving the top open then connecting one long board across the two verticals before plonking the large long cabinet on top.
View attachment 122155


which method would you go for?
 
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