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cold hide glue

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Anonymous

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Hi,
Dose anyone knows about “ cold hide glue “. All of us know the normal hot hide glue, which we heat in a water bath and use it, and when it cools it becomes jelly. But I am asking about real hide glue, which stays liquid in room temperature, can be brushed or rolled and perhaps can be sprayed (but I did not tried it), can be diluted with water to have a thinner mix. In short, it has all properties of the normal white glue (PVA), but it is real hide glue which can be used cold, in the method of “open the tin, and use it”.
 

Chris Knight

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mmm,

Welcome to the forum.
Normal hide glue can be made to stay liquid longer - very much longer - by the addition of salt or urea which is what the liquid hide glue you can buy under brand names like Titebond, have had done to them.

I have tried the Titebond stuff and it didn't work well for me. I have used small amounts of salt to give me a longer open time with normal hide glue but I have never tried to make stuff that stays liquid for a long time.

Hide glue will never have "all the properties of PVA" and presumably your interest stems from hide glue's other properties when set which it retains, even when starting out as a liquid glue.
 

MikeW

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Hi mmm, welcome to the forum!

I use the Titebond version for small veneering projects as it is handy and has the rigid glue line and lack of glue creep like PVA glues. I also use it for some smaller joinery glue ups.

I use other glues for larger veneering projects, like epoxies or plastic resin glues.

No problems with it yet.

Mike
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Hi everyone,
The “ cold hide glue “ I am speaking about is prepared by adding “ sodium benzoate “. In summer or warmer rooms you need a little amount of the benzoate, in winter or cold rooms it needs larger amount of it to preserve its liquidity. I prepared a bottle of cold hide glue in the beginning of the summer that it stayed liquid until few days ago when I consumed it and started to prepare another bottle, but I realized that I needed a larger amount of sodium benzoate to preserve the liquidity in the colder weather of October.
Of course when I said that cold hide glue have all properties of PVA I meant the liquidity and application form, but not the setting time or the little more resistance of PVA’s to humidity.
 

Jarviser

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mmm":2mr5l69z said:
Hi everyone,
The “ cold hide glue “ I am speaking about is prepared by adding “ sodium benzoate “.
According to the web, Sodium Benzoate seems to be a "poisonous food preservative" :? . Is it available over the counter anywhere? How much do you need?

And by the way does anyone have a UK mail order source for small quantities of other old fashioned chemicals like Sodium Bichromate, Oxalic Acid, powdered rosin etc? The jar of bichromate that I had to buy locally will still be there after I am in my veneered box.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Hi everybody,
Of course you got the prize Chris. It is menthol flavored one gallon of COLD HIDE GLUE with much thanks for the information you gave me. In fact it was not a quiz at all. Really I wanted to know if any one made a prescription to liquefy the bothering to use normal hide glue. I hovered in many sites discussing hide glue, but none of them described how to use it cold.
About sodium benzoate; it is widely used as a preservative in food and medicines, anti-icing fluid in automobiles, antirust agent of iron and steel. It is a very wide used food preservative, found almost in every fruit juices, beverages, or carbonated drinks you buy from the market. Much amounts of it you take from almost every thing you eat in a restaurant. The maximum amount aloud as food preservative is 0.1% = 1/1000. But I think you need more than that to preserve the liquidity of cold hide glue, especially in these cold days, and I do not think that will make any health harm unless someone intends to drink it. The amount of sodium benzoate needed depends on the environment temperature and how much the hide glue is diluted. The thinner the glue, the less benzoate you need. The benzoate is supposed to be found in the markets beside baking carbonate, or even in pharmacies.
 

Jarviser

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Although you don't say, mmm, I would guess you are in the USA where you can buy anything you want. The European parliament don't like us to buy anything in the high street that may hurt us (apart from tobacco and booze which raise taxes). If we get a cold we are limited to one small bottle of cough medicine and sixteen paracetamol. Acetone comes in 25ml bottles, IF you can find it now. So then if we want unusual chemicals we have to go to a wholesaler and buy 5 kilos of the stuff.
I bet you can still get creosote over there? There was a wonderful passage in a 1930's book I used to have, showing you how to creosote the frame of your asbestos sheeting workshop, then spray timber stocks with DDT, no mask, no gloves - the good old days! but I digress...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi Jarviser,
I can see how much you are in shortage of special chemicals. I will try to find another prescription to liquefy hide glue for you. I visited your page and I know how much the cold hide glue is optimal for your needs. Maybe you also want to try some chemicals available to you. First of all you need a preservative chemical, which inhibits the growth of microorganisms (yeast, bacteria, and fungi), that is sure, second you need another one which decreases the freezing point of water, not sure about that. The advantage of sodium benzoate is that it has the two properties. Why not to try salt, as Chris mentioned, or even an anti-icing fluid of automobiles.
 
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