Cock bead fixing

[RogerS]

Tim and Trevor were round my place yesterday and we were looking at the front of this draw (made by Lexterten).

and my question was "How was the cock bead made".

Tim originally thought that it was made like many other pieces of furniture with a separate wide cock bead strip but on closer inspection

and

[/img]

it looks as if the cock bead is made by pinning? gluing ? a semi-circle of beading all the way round and that in itself raised many questions...such as..

how do you make beading this tiny...and without splitting it. How do you actually fix it without splitting the beading with pins..

and so Tim suggested we started a thread........

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Roger
I'll put in my 2p on the last point, how is it made. I make mine by milling the profile onto the edge of a wider board, then ripping it off. I've been doing just that this very week. That way you have a lot of control what's happening and your fingers and router bit don't try to occupy the same volume of space at the same time.
Cheers
Steve

 

[RogerS]

Steve

What do you use to rip it off? A laser?

Roger

 

[Chris Knight]

Roger,

A couple of your photos suggest it may simply be moulded from the drawer front itself - the grain in the short vertical pieces doesn't altogether look like long grain in all photos, particularly cockbead4.jpg

This is plainly machine made furniture and I doubt there is much handwork in it at all. As Steve, says, it's no big deal to make a small beading either and if it is that it may just be glued and wood movement be damned!

 

[RogerS]

Chris

I don't think so for in the last picture (admittedly not that clear) you can see where the mitre joint is and also along the top of the drawer you can see a line between the beading and the actual drawer front.

If you were going to mould it from the actual front how would you do it? Use a bead scraper to make the bead and then rout out the area surrounded by the bead?

Roger[/code]

 

[Steve Maskery]

Roger
I use a table saw! Of course, the beading is away from the fence, I wouldn't want to trap such a narrow piece between blade and fence, so this means I have to reset the fence for each cut, but it's not hard to do.

I have routed a rebate here to help me align and attach it, but the principle would be the same if you just wanted small half-rounds, in which case you would saw the top off horizontally in the illustration above.
Are you with me?
Steve

 

[RogerS]

Steve

I think I'm with you. You say 'align and attach it' ...can you expand a little please?

What type of blade are you using ? Very fine teeth? Anything special?

Roger

 

[Aragorn]

I make tiny beads like this the same way as Steve M.
You don't need a finetoothed blade for rip cutting - better to use a rip blade!
It does require a decent table saw setup, and as Steve has said, the bit you want to keep is your offcut, so you are not trying to push a tiny piece against your fence.
Yeah, you lose a few bits because the blade mangles it or something, but then you just cut some more! (or start with too much in the first place).

 

[Steve Maskery]

OK I'll give you an example. I'm just finishing a little bookcase, which is an MDF carcase, biscuited, with a faceframe, sitting on a base made of four block feet joined with four rails. Dead simple.
Of course all my joinery is perfect, everything fits perfectly and nothing is mis-aligned. But just in case...
I have put some cockbeading on the underside of the carcase, where it sits on the frame. The rebate in the cockbeading means I can locate it accurately and evenly along the bottom edge. The pieces are mitred at the corners and glued and pinned in place from below. It hides the join between carcase and base, and protects the edge of the veneer too. Only the half-round is visible from the front, the "handle" of the hockey-stick is underneath, covering the MDF edge.
When I've got it properly assembled I'll post you a pic.
Cheers
Steve
PS I use a Freud rip blade

 

[RogerS]

Aragorn and Steve

You make it sound so.o.o.o.o simple :wink:

Roger

 

[Chris Knight]

Roger,

If it were moulded from the drawer front - then in the factory, I guess it would be CNC routed. To repeat at home, I would use a small bead cutter to rout the beads, staying away from the corners - which have to be finished by hand to avoid cutting into the bead that comes from the other edge - then just rout out the middle as you describe.

 

[tim]

My thoughts were along the lines of Steve and Aragorn ie hockeystick. But there definitely is no 'handle' to the hockeystick but just the tip on Roger's dresser.

I'm sure that if the beading is just the narrow strip then it will be glued on but I am at the same time very surprised because it would appear to be fragile for manufacturing and use.

If it were moulded from the drawer front - then in the factory, I guess it would be CNC routed. To repeat at home, I would use a small bead cutter to rout the beads, staying away from the corners - which have to be finished by hand to avoid cutting into the bead that comes from the other edge - then just rout out the middle as you describe.

Roger also raised the CNC question and the only reason why i woudl have thought that this wasn't likely is that the internal corners are all sharp - suggesting either hand finishing or a cutter so small that there is no obvious curve. These seem to be pretty unlikely to me.

I really like cockbeading as a visual effect but one thing that has always struck me is that its main function is to distract the eye from any misalignment (steve's furniture excepted).
Yet in which ever way it is made and applied, it probably takes as long to make and apply as it would to spend the extra time fitting the door or drawer properly!

Cheers

Tim

 

[RogerS]

Yes...definitely not a hockey stick as you can see in some of the corners where the mitre joint has shrunk.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Tim
I am using it here not just to hide any misalignment but also for its edge-protecting properties. To my mind, the edge of veneered board is just too darn fragile without it.
Having said that, the drawer fronts of my wife's drawers and our bedside drawers are veneer on solid matching timber - no cockbeading - and I've not had any trouble yet.
The bedside drawers and my wife's drawers can be seen at the usual place.
Cheers
Steve

 

[tim]

I am using it here not just to hide any misalignment but also for its edge-protecting properties.

I agree - I was thinking 'visual effect' more when it is applied to the frame rather than the door or drawer edge.

But when, as in Roger's furniture, its only a tiny applied D moulding stuck on solid timber, it looks to be the most fragile thing there! This is the thing that really confuses me.

Cheers

T

 

[Chris Knight]

Tim,

I don't know how factories do inside corners - as you say a tiny cutter doesn't seem likely. And yet, our kitchen which is mass produced - but real wood - has just such machined inside corners. One of these days, I will make an effort to find out how they are done.

Most likely they have slapped on some very thin beading with RF glues.

I do agree cock beading looks nice and it really is essential to protect veneer edges in the longer term. And Steve, I couldn't possibly comment on your observations :roll:

 

[Aragorn]

Guys
You don't have to make a handle to the hockey stick!
You can just rout a bead onto the edge of a board and rip it off on the TS.
It's not difficult - give it a go!
Just take the time to accurately set your rip fence so that your offcut of beading is a nice perfect semi-circle.

 

[tim]

I don't know how factories do inside corners - as you say a tiny cutter doesn't seem likely. And yet, our kitchen which is mass produced - but real wood - has just such machined inside corners. One of these days, I will make an effort to find out how they are done.

I can't tell you how long its been flummoxing me so if anyone knows the answer i would love to know!!

You can just rout a bead onto the edge of a board and rip it off on the TS.
It's not difficult - give it a go!
Just take the time to accurately set your rip fence so that your offcut of beading is a nice perfect semi-circle.

What TS do you have?
I have a Sheppach 2500 (with the alu top) and while I haven't tried it, I suspect that the horizontal gap between blade and Table top will swallow the bead. There isn't a way of reducing this gap and it has definitely 'eaten' strips of about the same width in the past when I've been trimming things before. The bead on the Roger's drawers were at most 3mm.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Chris Knight]

Tim,

I think the TS4010 that I have is different but I have made a wooden zero clearance insert for my saw for cutting thin (<1/8 inch thick) strips. Adam has seen it and as he has the 2500 may be able to comment.

You can always simply cut on top of a sacrificial bit of hardboard - I did that on my previous TS2000

 

[tim]

The 2500 I have has a removable panel to the left of the blade that is the full length of the table top.

The only way i could see a way of making a zero tolerance plate would be to either attach something to this from underneath this panel. I would have thought that any suitable way of fixing this wouild make it very difficult to make it easily removeable or replaceable.

You can always simply cut on top of a sacrificial bit of hardboard - I did that on my previous TS2000

Didn't think of that! Although does that only work for one fence setting, since the fence won't ride over the top of it? Or have I taken another stupid pill? :roll:

T