Clock: Fitting Frame and Panel to Carcass

[J_SAMa]

Hi all,
I want to build a clock with frame and panel construction. I've worked out both the carcass and the frame and panel in SketchUp, but I lack a way to attach the frame and panel to the carcass. I suspect that just gluing it on won't work due to seasonal expansion. Are there special joints or anything for this?

I suppose I could also do a hinge joint and just let it open and close. Is it much harder to get a proper fit for hinge joints (as in the amount of friction between the frame and panel and the carcass)?

Sam

 

[AndyT]

The only place I can think of where you would find those two constructions together would be in a cabinet with a frame and panel back. There, the back would sit in a groove or rebate. That would be no good here.

You could think of your front like a table top and fix it to the frame with buttons.

But on the other hand, if this is a clock it's presumably quite small and so the 'wrong' construction could be less of a problem than you think.


A very simple way would be to drill slanting holes through the frame and screw into the front. To cope with expansion and contraction just make your holes a bit bigger than the screws or make them slightly slotted.


Another option would be to use small nails - they can often give enough to cope with movement. Obviously, with screws or nails you need to be careful of the length so they don't come through the front.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I don't see any seasonal movement issue, the point in a frame and panel is that it overcomes the problem. Provided, of course the panel is free to move in the frame. Gluing the frame to the carcass will be fine, if that is want you want to do.

Mike.

 

[paulm]

Biscuit joints, pockethole and screws, or similar are what come to my mind in the first instance.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

My natural inclination when I read this (before reading Andy T's response) would be to rout a channel on all four inside faces of the carcass (say 10mm) using an accurate width jig so the frame and panel was a perfect fit. You could even chamfer the front edge of the dado to add a bit of shadow detail (or apply a very narrow moulding).

I can't see why Andy wouldn't favour that approach because as another poster said, the frame and panel construction is designed to overcome moisture related movement stress. Also, if you rout the groove 1 or 2 mm wider than the frame and panel it will have expansion room for the colder months.

If I didn't have much time I would probably use buttons and wrap the front gap with moulding.

 

[AndyT]

My natural inclination when I read this (before reading Andy T's response) would be to rout a channel on all four inside faces of the carcass (say 10mm) using an accurate width jig so the frame and panel was a perfect fit. You could even chamfer the front edge of the dado to add a bit of shadow detail (or apply a very narrow moulding).

I can't see why Andy wouldn't favour that approach because as another poster said, the frame and panel construction is designed to overcome moisture related movement stress. Also, if you rout the groove 1 or 2 mm wider than the frame and panel it will have expansion room for the colder months.

If I didn't have much time I would probably use buttons and wrap the front gap with moulding.

I'd assumed that the OP wanted the panel alone to be visible from the front, not the front edges of the vertical sides.
But frankly, unless it's a huge clock to go on the top of a tower, I think a plain glued joint would be fine.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Of course...you're right Andy....I'm sure that was the OP's intention now I've read it more carefully. Thinking about it...why on earth would he want the panel "sunk in" to a wooden tunnel?? Doh!

Apologies for the bum steer.

 

[paulm]

Looking again at how the top and bottom of the carcass overhang the panel, a couple of pins in from the top and from the bottom into the edge of the frame would hold it and not be visible.

Cheers, Paul

 

[J_SAMa]

My natural inclination when I read this (before reading Andy T's response) would be to rout a channel on all four inside faces of the carcass (say 10mm) using an accurate width jig so the frame and panel was a perfect fit. You could even chamfer the front edge of the dado to add a bit of shadow detail (or apply a very narrow moulding).

I can't see why Andy wouldn't favour that approach because as another poster said, the frame and panel construction is designed to overcome moisture related movement stress. Also, if you rout the groove 1 or 2 mm wider than the frame and panel it will have expansion room for the colder months.

If I didn't have much time I would probably use buttons and wrap the front gap with moulding.

I'd assumed that the OP wanted the panel alone to be visible from the front, not the front edges of the vertical sides.
But frankly, unless it's a huge clock to go on the top of a tower, I think a plain glued joint would be fine.

Yes that's correct. I'd not want to make the sides visible. It's about 440 mm tall, guess I'll just glue it.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I don't see much reason for joinery or fixings. I would join the front frame and panel to the carcass uprights and then add the top and bottom. This will allow you to plane flush any slight misalignment of the assembly, which will be harder to do between the overhanging top and bottom. Also, it is easier to get all three parts the same length, rather e than trying to plane the frame to fit a fixed dimension and then force it into the 'box' if you follow. A shaving or two too many and the fit gets sloppy awfully quickly, as does introducing a slight angle, which is easy to do, since you will be planing the frame from both ends, towards the centre, to avoid breakout on the far edge. Assembling the frame to the sides first is most logical and the edge gluing will be plenty strong. You could rout grooves for a loose tongue, if you like, but this would be more for alignment during glue up, rather than any structural benefit. Likewise, biscuits if you have a biscuit jointer.

You will need some joinery for connecting the top and bottom to the sides, though. How about dowels?

Mike.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hello,

I don't see much reason for joinery or fixings. I would join the front frame and panel to the carcass uprights and then add the top and bottom. This will allow you to plane flush any slight misalignment of the assembly, which will be harder to do between the overhanging top and bottom. Also, it is easier to get all three parts the same length, rather e than trying to plane the frame to fit a fixed dimension and then force it into the 'box' if you follow. A shaving or two too many and the fit gets sloppy awfully quickly, as does introducing a slight angle, which is easy to do, since you will be planing the frame from both ends, towards the centre, to avoid breakout on the far edge. Assembling the frame to the sides first is most logical and the edge gluing will be plenty strong. You could rout grooves for a loose tongue, if you like, but this would be more for alignment during glue up, rather than any structural benefit. Likewise, biscuits if you have a biscuit jointer.

You will need some joinery for connecting the top and bottom to the sides, though. How about dowels?

Mike.

I'm dadoing the tops and bottoms to fit the sides. Its all covered

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

O.K. Then you will have to fit the frame after the carcass is made. Still achievable with a bit of care.

Mike.